Stop derailing the thread. This is the wall movement tracker, not your personal pet project propaganda thread. Substantiate your claims or shut up.

I hate sleep. What a beautiful opportunity missed because of petty biological needs.

These posts always make me feel like I'm in a surfing club. (No offence ment.)

Hah, the only friends I have who invested in Bitcoin are the ones who live alone. The ones living with their parents generally don't worry about money yet and think Bitcoin is 'a stupid scam'.

Even more plain: we prefer to use our stuff for longterm production instead of momentary consumption.

Eat less grain now and plant more crops so we can feed more people next year.



Central bankers make for bad farmers.  

Hoarding occurs when the returns from keeping something become less than what you would get from doing something else, more productive, with it.

No hoarding is currently happening with Bitcoin, just rational saving.

Also because

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ffnrV95U1r1vzzeo2_500.jpg

Drinking German pils is like drinking water. In fact, that's what I thought I was drinking.

Ever drank a trappist? It's what the gods drink.

It really does sort of help to check your facts before words come out of your mouth. Both the EU and the US each have twice the GDP of China. Heck, China's GDP is only 25% bigger than that of Japan. China still has a long way to go before they become 'kings of the world'.

This is essentially correct. Greece has had a negative trade balance for a very long time now, with no improvements on the horizon.


This is completely wrong and demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of both European politics and European economics. Our institutions are complex and never straightforward. Even most Europeans don't understand them. You would do well to learn more about them before saying rediculous things like that.

Nevertheless: Greece will not be kicked out of the European Union. They will not leave the Eurozone or be kicked out of it. Leaving either the Eurozone or the Union would not absolve their debts. There will be more negotiations. A settlement will eventually be reached. The EU will continue to heavily subsidize Greece, which Greece is dependent on to survive. Their economy will take a turn for the worse but they'll still be better off than in any other situation.

As a whole, the EU is still running a trade surplus and is as such doing okay. Despite what you believe, Germany amounts to only 20% of the EU's economy and does not dominate European policy. This percentage is actually shrinking as eastern Europe developes. There is no massive currency devalutation nor is there one in the making. There isn't a single serious effort to reinstute national currencies, as not a single country would stand to benefit from it.

There is a whole lot of exaggeration when it comes to European economic and political instability (which is mostly just perception), and it seems you've fallen prey to it.

Why? What would that accomplish? Greece doesn't need a softer currency. Greece desperately needs economic growth.


The trouble with Greece, politically speaking, is not extremists (Syriza aren't extremists, just idiots). It is corruption. Greece scores very badly on this, just like every other country in the Balkan area plus Italy. Unless Syriza manages to come down hard on curruption, there isn't a lot of hope. The rest of the Union is doing alright and most members are doing their best to improve the situation. While it is natural for people to be sceptical of their government in the midst of a downpour, most Europeans (think 60%+) are still in favour of staying with the union. The percentage is even higher amoung the European youth, so there's hope for the future. The real disagreement is not about the union, but about policy.


Actually, most Eurozone countries are doing okay with respect to debts. It's important to keep in mind that it's the relative percentages that count, not the nominal amount. Higher debt isn't a problem if your economy can shoulder it. The problem with Greece is that it can't. It imports nearly twice as much as it exports and their government spends a whopping 160% of GDP. The economic troubles of any other EU country pale in comparison. Yes; Italy, Ireland and Portugal are still spending too much, but not as crazy much as Greece.

The central banks aren't 'pumping' the markets, by the way. They are transferring wealth from the people to themselves through financial markets. QE is just a very advanced way of taxation. The net effect is cheaper loans for the governments.

Yes, if. That does not mean the Eurozone will implode and the EU will tear itself apart, as you sketch it. Both remain viable even below Dollar parity.


Actually, that is exactly what you need to do. You can not understand Europe if you do not understand its organisational complexities. The structure of contemporary Europe is unlike anything before and can not be analysed through 'traditional' models. You will grossly misjudge the situation every time. Even European press does not seem to understand Europe, though that's pretty much a given with journalists anyway. I don't know where you get your news, but I will tell you this: American press on Europe is downright idiotic.


Again: Germany is not alone in this. It is not German taxpayers alone who carry Greece. The 'peripheral countries' are in fact among the least indebted and their economies are growing strong. They are as annoyed by Greece as are the other European countries.

As you said yourself, Syriza's 'demands' and their cuddling with Russia are no more than pointless provocations to make themselves look good to their voters. Their real demands softened up as soon as they got elected.

Not actually true. Europe counts many pro-EU right-wing parties and just as much leftist nationalist parties. In fact, in western Europe nearly all independist parties (Scotland, Ireland, Catalonia, Basque Country, Wales, Galicia, Bretagne, ...) are located on the left. The only exceptions are the independist parties in Flanders and Northern-Italy, both of which are pro-EU.

You did not understand what I said. Europe is not complex because it likes to add complexity. Europe is complex because of how it came to be (and is still forming). If you do not understand these complexities, you will not understand European politics nor our economic policies. It is not a special pleading fallacy when it is the reality. You judge Europe as if it's a singular behemothic superstate. It is not. You do not understand Europe. Your predictions of our imminent political demise confirm this. At the very least you should get a basic understanding of multi-speed Europe. The European Union and the Eurozone are but two layers of what is a complex network of treaties, not a state. Throwing someone out of the Eurozone or indeed the Union (or them leaving it) is not as straightforward as you present it. We wouldn't even know where to start. The below diagram is a vastly simplified representation of this (and already outdated too).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Supranational_European_Bodies_with_NATO_members-en.svg

I know a lot of people like to think of the EU as a vast state with memberstates who can come and go as they like. That's not an accurate portrayal. Not even remotely. It might be a federal, integrated superstate in half a century, but it isn't now. It does not even have a constitution to act as a base layer for government. That attempt failed.

'It' is a fiction. There is no singular Europe. Which is exactly my point. You are looking at it from the wrong angle.


European integration has been working very well since 1951, thank you very much.