Supreme bullish sentiment. Eh, there are still some people trying to say that the only thing you can use bitcoin now is for silk road and speculating, but they are mostly laughed at.

I love the market action, high volumes right after a huge crash, very exciting. Let's see how long the "lolstability" lasts...

What we're seeing here is that the BTC price is no longer directly pegged to MtGox's lag time.

Call it more of a "weighted peg" now... obviously there is some effect, but panic sells are only fun if they happen once in a while - folks have become desensitized to Gox's antics.

We could dip into 0.110ish, due for a decent correction anyhow. But 62 minutes of lag on Gox won't cause a 62 dollar/btc price drop anymore

Newb investor behavior is pretty funny.

Check out CampBX. Many funding options, even USPS money order by mail. They also seem to be in tune with [albeit vague existing] regulatory requirements so are less like to be randomly shut down than some of these fly-by-night new exchanges.

Low volume right now but I expect as the "new kid on the block" they will swallow up a lot of ex-Goxs and ex-Bitfloors.

Nah this is totally a shoop. CONSPIRACY!!! Prolexic isn't even a real company, Gox just made them up.

(In seriousness: They're learning a thing or two about transparency. They should release this third-party event report (along with a way to verify it via the third party) after each and every single claimed DDoS event.)

I have an idea! Why doesn't Gox publish the source IPs on twitter, so we can all point LOIC at them? (disclaimer I'm a complete DDoS newb and i'm sure there's some reason that 'firing back' doesn't work, so this is probably a stupid idea .)

(Forum etiquette - quote pruning pro-tip - prune large images in quoted replies by throwing in a height= width= into the [img] tag, make people's scroll fingers happy )

Any professional service run by professionals in a professional manner would not be kept running when it is at a fraction of functionality and allowing people to trade blind.

However, it doesn't really matter - because people are silly enough to continue using it. Looks like y'all can't handle the responsibility of a consumer in a free market

Various Goxxian Excuses
-"Nowhere else has volume" (what good is volume when you can't access it half the time or end up losing it all in a panic market sell that ends up being executed after the dip has already happened and you don't even see the price until after it's rebounded)
-"I can't get money anywhere else" (Look around, plenty of exchanges with various funding options. CampBX in US even allows USPS money order by mail in ~2 days)
-"All the other places are cheap sketchy fly-by-night operations that have been hacked" (And Gox is.... a cheap sketchy fly-by-night operation that has been hacked, so your point?)

Hopefully, if you are here and you use Gox, I have deeply offended you and shamed your family

Keep clicking your ruby slippers together, Dorothy, and saying "Gox will implement a new trading engine... Gox will implement a new trading engine... Lag will be a thing of the past... Lag will be a thing of the past..." any day now Kinda like those BFL ASICs

I don't understand... do you not know how to internet? Ordering a DDoS is as easy as 1,2,3, and we know that they cost money, therefore, it is logical to assume that if one were seeking quotes for DDoS attacks, either out of curiousity or ill intentions, one could find a quote. That is just common sense, Broseph.

Now, a DDoS quoted at $200 might not do much against MtGox/prolexic, so if you are questioning the effectiveness of a service provided for $X quote, then sure. I'm with you. But if you are saying "it is impossible to be quoted X amount for a botnet operator to perform a DDoS attack," I am saying "you are severely misinformed in how the internet works."

If you spent an hour looking on darknet pages you could easily contract a botnet operator to perform such a service. Note that I am not condoning illegal activities in any way, I am just refuting what seems to be a refusal to recognize that the world is an evil place on your part. Yes, a black market exists - not just for drugs and guns but for computer services as well. Common. Sense. Broseph.

No, I don't think you understand. I deal with text, not people. I don't care what "this idiot" posts. Here's basically what's happening:

Rpietila: I went to the grocery store, got some bananas, was quoted .49c/kilo.
ElectriMucus: Yeah cool I believe you

Rpietila: I had waffles for breakfast, at the store I was quoted $5.99 for the package
EM: Yeah cool bro

Rpietila: I went to some long-haired teenager on the street, was quoted $20 for a bag of weed
EM: This is starting to get a little unbelievable...

Rpietila: I went to the DDoS operator, just out of curiousity, was quoted $200 for a Goxlag.. Didn't order it, though. 
EM: I DON'T BELIEVE YOU, EVIL CARGO CULT OPERATOR [starts ranting about some socialist occupy wall st nonsense] YOU HATE BITCOIN YOU GREEDY SPECULATOR

All of those scenarios were completely believable. Sure, rpietila's posts are a little 'noveau riche' and reek of fine cheeses and chardonnay. Who cares. Arbitrarily accusing people of lying about pretty mundane, believable things is silly and immature. Attack text and ideas and arguments, not people themselves.

[/school]

Drunk and high? Careful, lest you get a "TUI" (Trading Under the Influence.)

(So much for this thread's "hardcore" status)

Uh, maybe my timeframe is off, but if I recall correctly - the last time Loaded alluded to a wild ride, was DIRECTLY before this recent crash.

Should we be worried? 

These are taken from the old Wall Observer thread:
April 3:April 7:
April 9: April 10: Crash!
Recently:

Recently, someone in a different thread tried to argue that bitcoin was doomed to crash and fiat was better because at least the physical object had intrinsic value as wallpaper.

I should have pointed out that it's more useful as toilet paper... and left him to his own devices. 

Casascius should start selling rolls of toilet paper with each sheet a "bitcoin bill" with the private key for one satoshi printed on it... the bears would LOVE that.

The big boys know that if they let the price rise too fast, they could see 75% of their wealth disappear in a day again. So they make sure we lose 25% for a few hours every so often, helps temper the exuberance.

But the question is - how long can the Alliance (of rich BTC hoarders) hold out against the stampeding horde?

 

So much anger... did you forget to take your meds today?  

How profound 

Wait, you mean people who go
"OMG rally ____day, I BELIEVE in bitcoin, it's the ultimate way to defeat fiat and corrupt central banksters once and for all!" when the price goes up $5, but scream and cry
"Bitcoin is overvalued, no one actually SPENDS it, it's just silk road and evil speculators manipulating, we're going down to $25 in the next week, bitcon's TRUE VALU" when the price goes down $5?


What else is new around here

Wake me up when 33% of the speculation subforum's population does NOT have tunnel vision...

Currently $120.50 on CampBX.

Inb4... Rpietila says "I don't think we're going to see $115 ever again..." AGAIN.  

Of course followed by "I am so sure of this, I will even write a BTC72 bajillion put... any takers?  

+1, fitty...
Gee, these "bitcoin users don't actually care about using bitcoin, all of them are just trying to get rich quick!" folks (i.e. the people who bought at $260) are a dime a dozen!

It's almost, like, what are those things called, 'stereotypes'? 

Aside from that it's an unfalsifiable statement. No definition is given as to what makes one a "hoarder/get rich quick schemer who doesn't care" vs. a "spender / treats bitcoin like a hot potato / keeps savings in USD / is a BUTTCONZ TRU BELIEBER."

If I have BTC50 in a cold wallet and the rest of my balance is USD/etc converted to bitcoin to buy cat food, restaurant food, VPN service, domain name, monthly delivery of PMs, occasional clothing or computer purchase - am I a spender or a hoarder?
Now, multiply the amount saved by 5 and decrease the amount spent by 2x... what am I now? Where do you draw the line between "buttcon tru beliebers who keep their savings in USD and only use bitcoin to buy stuff" and "evil hoarder spender speculators with 15 bajillion buttcons just trying to make a quick buck, don't actually CARE"

Bitcoin isn't your mom or girlfriend, guys. Bitcoin doesn't have feelings, so stop whining. It doesn't care how much you you BELIEVE in it nor does it care what percentage you spend vs. save and what label the butthurt bears therefore apply upon you without actually defining what ratio of BELIEBER/SPECULATOR you must be in order to qualify as "SOMEONE WHO CARES."

Bold prediction given recent "stability." 

Or to spike the price with a market order, wait till it peaks, then send it crashing back down with another market order, hoping it overshoots $115. Someone's trying to get $105 coins

I missed the part where reptilia claimed that being wealthy makes him more of a human, and I also missed the part where reptilia claimed that the ever-elusive "it" is about "how wealthy you are."

But I guess if we're in the business of refuting made up claims, it's all good.

It is certainly funny how rpietila makes a point of mentioning his wealth, sometimes in appropriate context, sometimes not so much. But it's even funnier how so many people get offended by it and make inferences that are entirely inaccurate. "Reptilia thinks he's a more sparkly person than me because he's a n.nth class supernode... wtf NO! I am going to respond to his post with a refutation of the claim that I just made up in my head! GRR!"

You're right, 400 is unsustainable... we're going to crash back down to around 200 pages in the next few days, followed by a long, slow slide to the double digits (though Proudhon says single).

Man, talk about a nose-dive. Glad I had my buy orders in place!

Speaking of that... CampBX is down. LOL.

...

Wait, so there are only manipulators trying to prop things up?

What about the manipulators trying to drive things down?  Do they not also exist?

So if someone sells a large amount of coins at market and drives down price, they are not a manipulator. But if someone buys coins at market to drive price up, they are a manipulator?

Sorry, I got a bit confused trying to understand your logic, because it appears you did not use even an ounce of it 

Protip: Both parties are manipulators. Your assertion that only price movement in one direction qualifies as manipulation is both hilarious and stupid.

[edit] Protip #2: The manipulators propping things up are not losing coins, they are potentially losing USD/etc. The manipulators driving things down could potentially lose coins. However, if both are good at what they are doing, they will gain.

Ok, Americans are awake. Here's what they're thinking?

"Hmm, looks like DHS froze Gox's american arm so no Dwolla."

"Hmm, this isn't really bad news since there's still a million ways to get money in/out of a variety of exchanges, and the liquidity argument is a chicken/egg problem. If I need to get money out of Gox I'll just send the BTC to US-based CampBX and have them send me a money order or ACH transfer. Or I'll just sell the bitcoins OTC to my pal Joey; I heard he wants some."

"Hmm, looks like a bunch of idiots panic-sold last night on what was just another case of TPTB fucking with bitcoin exchanges. What are they trying to do, let the terrorists win or something? It's not like government regulation is effective at successfully reducing demand, especially with distributed systems. Man these folks are tools."

"Oh, looks like price rebounded partway so I can just pretend like nothing happened; except that something did: Bitcoin proved itself to be more resilient to classic 'TPBT Fucking with Exchange' attacks."

SCORE
Bitcoin: +1
DHS: 0

 

Yes, because Mark Karpeles filling out a form wrong to save a quick buck is a structural impairment of the magnitude of the defective bolts that were used to fasten the steel plates together on the side hull of the Titanic. And is also an errant strategic maneuver of the magnitude of the captain deciding to turn sideways rather than hitting the iceberg head on.

You bears are so great at analogies

If Fiat has lasted this long, with its laughable fundamentals, Bitcoin's survival will be a piece of cake.

Priceless. Another FUDtroll smacked to the curb.

I agree; I don't see much reason for any significant price action. Sideways for a while.

IMHO it's likely that some of the big players in the conference are currently using bots with stability algorithms. Either a tank or a huge spike and correction wouldn't look too good during the conference. Not that they have the power to completely protect against volatility, nor are they willing to risk more than a small percent of their bitcoins, but for people with large stashes it's not too hard to keep the market from doing crazy shit when you don't want it to, especially when your "bitcoin bros" are helping.

I don't think that's the main reason for the boring (healthy) price action. I think that's just the way it is right now. Market making could be a secondary factor, though.

I love how selling or buying a large amount of coins is automatically manipulation. Maybe someone just wanted to buy a house, or 720 hookers.



Lol. Must be... MANIPULATION!!!
Gotta love these tin foil hat types.

Loaded (how cute, the Winklevii twins share a forum account, do they also share a GPG key? ) posted here right before HUGE rally, but then he also posted here right before the HUGE CRASH.

Is he Loaded, bearer of bullish sentiment?
Or is he Loaded Stormcrow: ("A just question my leige. Late is the hour in which this venture capitalist chooses to appear.")

 



We're about to find out!

Fitty that cracked me up, thanks for the perfect response to the most retarded comeback to Gox criticism that is thrown around these parts 

Even bigger shame that most tigers sleep about 18 hours per day. 

(Perhaps the ancient chinese were hipster and liked a little irony in their proverbs)

I'd love to see that tornado gif as the background of Bitcoinity sometime.

Relax about China; the Chinese have been figuring out how to get around the CCP's censorship for years. Sure, it means an adoption boom is unlikely but we'll still see some support from China. Maybe those interested will just move to OTC.

China attempting to block bitcoin traffic = good news for bitcoin(they legitimize it by banning it)

Nikkei crashing 7% = good news for bitcoin (if you have been following Japan recently you'll know why)

Most of the "bad news" is really good news. Heck, the Gox lawsuit and Dwolla seizure was good news, and people moving away from Gox is good news. Finally folks are starting to realize that we live in bizarro-world where everything is the opposite of what it seems.....

MANIPULATION EVERYWHERE!!!  

Or it could just be: volume was low for a while. now it is high again. normally volume gets high when price moves.

But, yes, "insider trading" is more likely

 

NIKKEI wall observer thread 

edit: I agree with Miz4r. NIKKEI 225 is not bitcoin, niothor. 7% swings are not routine; in fact, they are quite alarming in the current market environment. Bitcoin behaves like a penny stock so it's OK to pass off huge swings by saying "Oh it's still higher than it was a month ago." The NIKKEI is what we call a "real world market" with "big boys" and "real companies" and "real exchanges that don't suck" Not as simple as just ignoring a 7% dump like we can do with bitcoin.

Rogoff? Is that the "Excel Error that changed the world" guy? Who singlehandedly influenced much of the Western world's current fiscal policy based on an errant spreadsheet calculation in a 2010 research paper? And of course after the error was discovered, the policies were not revisited? 

If Rogoff says this time is not different, I'm not sure that I should believe him 

Did someone actually say this? This is 2011 talk. There IS a steady growth of services and stores. It's not a matter of "appear," it's verifiable using hard statistics (number of businesses and services currently accepting, number of charities accepting, less linear measures such as tx volume, blockchain tx, etc etc etc).

There IS a steady growth of services and stores accepting bitcoins. Your perception and the way it "appears" to you doesn't matter - go look on the internet, it is impossible to make the case that adoption is flatlining or decreasing using verifiable data. Feel free to make up some data to support your claim, though. Here, I'll do it for you:
"Lol, guys, last month, 1,000 businesses on earth accepted bitcoin. This month, only 754 businesses accept bitcoin."
There, I said it. Doesn't make it true.

Lol @ Coinseeker's attempt at damage control. "Lol, people don't argue with me because I constantly say dumb shit; they do it because, like, they totally have contrary beliefs and stuff."

Do you realize how silly it is to claim that what you say is "calling it like you see it?" Do you see any people saying "What I predict is just made up" or "I don't really believe what I I predict" or "I don't call it like I see it." It's redundant to say that you believe that what you say is accurate. It's like a restaurant telling me that they think their food tastes good because they know good food and they call it like they see it. Ain't no point to a statement like that.

Coinseeker the Restaurateur to his patrons that don't like his food: "Look, if I see good food, I'm going to call it like I see it, and I will speak on it. Even though my reasons are justified, I'll still get accused of making disgusting food, because my opinion of the food I gave you is just contradictory to what you food-h8ers believe."

Bill Maher? Lol. Gud one.

It's pretty well-known that the old-man libertarians (Ron Paul for instance) want nothing to do with Bitcoin.

Go to Porcfest however and you'll see a completely different story... 

Disclaimer: I don't consider myself a Libertarian as libertarians are statists  free market and voluntary capitalism is my ball game. I still like making fun of the gray-haired Libertarians who fail to see what Bitcoin could do for a free market, though. Oh well, their loss.

Coinseeker as much as I love laughing at you, I certainly have no problem with capitalists here to make money. After all, that's the #1 reason I'm here too, all "BTC is the revolution and price will go to the moon" sentiments aside. I just thought it was funny that you basically tried to discredit counterarguments to your positions by saying that the opponents had different opinions. Well DUH.  And saying "I back up my arguments but my opponents don't" is kind of a sleazy move, going around in circles, although we have bull and bear alike who don't do much in the way of supporting predictions with believable fundamentals and/or TA.

Well, that sudden 3k volume spike was pretty funny, someone REALLY WANTED to get the price to break 130. Well, they succeeded... for about a minute.

Can we get an equation that shows the relationship between the amount of bitcoin volatility and the number of posts between ChartBuddy appearances? Discussion-Between-ChartBuddy-Posting-Interval Index? No wonder volume is so low; there's nothing to trade on short term if you're looking at >1% gains on successful trades.

Never fails to crack me up. Yesterday he "won" an internet argument with me by tl;dring my quotes!  Dude is legit hysterical.

Bitcoin24 released funds bump? Get ready for the ride

Or maybe all those people will be saying "Oh no, an evil socialist government shut down my exchange, I finally got my money back so I can leave bitcoin for good! It is doomed! I am going to give up and let the terrorists win. Fiat 4Ever!"

How much faith do you have in the BTC-24 victims? 

Hopefully more faith than you have in the U.S. Dollar:

Walzilla: "I got yo' back, bulls"

Bears: (running around like crazy japanese people in original Godzilla movie) "WALZIRRA! WALZIRRA! AAAHHHHH!"

What? Dumping thousands of coins in one market order is possibly the WORST way to cash out in existence. All signs point to "NOT people cashing out."

So what makes you say, with such certainty, "It's people cashing out." Stupidity? Ignorance? Thinking that dumping thousands of coins in one market order and experiencing slippage 2 DA MAX is the best way to cash out rather than the worst? 

EDIT: And no, the fact that they did not instantly rebuy all $2.5 million worth of coins and bring price back up to 125+ does not definitively mean they are cashing out. That's not how this game works.

Did that $1M wall at 127 from yesterday get eaten or pulled? Anyone catch that?

It might look that way, but a miner who mines over an encrypted connection and sells the coins via in-person or on the web OTC - times several thousand - would be hard to grab by the balls. The only surefire way to do it is to attempt to fill OTC markets with federal agents, or start a "report your neighbour for bitcoin mining" program. Very expensive. Politically risky. Print more dollars to pay for it? Going after bitcoin like this would be SURE to jumpstart rapid-fire adoption.

Think of it like trying to go after individual bittorrent users; I know there are a lot more of those, but they don't even TRY for privacy. Bitcoin miners tend to know a little more about what they are doing. Catching thousands of miners who make a concerted effort to remain pseudonymous will take a LOT of money and man-hours. I'm not saying miners do this now (most don't) but if push came to shove... well, there's a profit to be had so they would make some changes. And, yes, a few of the lazy miners will get a friendly knock on the door from a federal marshal.

What's happening is all these companies are realizing it's dangerous to do business with bitcoin exchanges or any online payment system. Technocash probably looked at the Dwolla seizure, Liberty Reserve, Perfect Money's recent actions - and was like FUCK THAT. We ain't gettin our hands dirty.

So we are seeing fewer and fewer funding and withdrawal methods. According to the logic of some, price should have tanked already, each time news like that came out and the effect hit. 

Lol @ someone else who is stuck in 2011 and is utterly convinced that bitcoin is still "riding on silk road."

Keep on dreamin, pal. Someone like you shows up every once in a while; we'll try to be nice.

lucas.sev got in a funny-looking delorean in 2011 and showed up here.
Now, like a bewildered Marty McFly, he's looking around in disbelief.

"What? You mean silk road is no longer a significant driver of bitcoin price?"
"What? Thousands of legitimate businesses accept bitcoin, altogether dwarfing silk road in sales volume?"
"What? An ever-increasing number of popular mainstream businesses, websites, and charities, accept bitcoin - like Wordpress, OKCupid, Mega, Gyft, Reddit, Foodler, etc.?"

Just because Amazon, Wal-Mart, and the IRS don't accept bitcoin yet doesn't mean we're still riding on Silk Road's coat tails. 

It's kinda like those jackets that dry themselves and the hovering skateboards... this is the fuuutuuurrree , luke.sev... the fuuuuuttuuurrrreeeee

Yes, that is true in Paul Krugman's socialist keynesian wet dream.

In the real world we call it "using buzzwords (like 'hoarders') to demonize responsible saving."

Nobody ever has any legit data to back up their assumption that there is this huge number of people who hoard BTCs and never spend them. Although if you look at tx volume, you'd easily see that the ratio of spent coins to hoarded coins is much higher than with the USD OR precious metals, which is a good thing, so what the heck are we still complaining about? The second we say "Oh, but I do spend my coins" the 'anti-hoarder' crowd backs off - "Oh, well that's ok, you're a spender, you're benefiting the currency."
So what is the magical ratio of spend to saved coins you must reach before being considered a hoarder, and how can we empirically justify this ratio? No one has ever answered me this question, and I ask it every single time someone demonizes saving by implying that it "kills bitcoin."

People hoarded gold and silver and they were used as currencies for millenia. Thousands of years. Go read Fekete's papers on monetary theory you will shit your pants when you read what he has to say about the role of hoarding 

It reminds me of the people who say "bitcoin is riding on silk road" (newest reincarnation: lucas.sev.) No matter how many times you roll your eyes they keep coming back and repeating the same old shtick, as if repeating it a hundred times will make it true.

(1) You made a nonsensical, irrelevant statement about a toilet.
(2) You acknowledged that you said something stupid and someone else responded to it.
(3) You made a nonsensical, irrelevant statement about "greed" that cannot be empirically proven
(4) You made a generality regarding the "hopes" of "others on forum," and used that generality to support some sort of statement about your mood. This is called a "non-sequitur."


Ok, so you replied by saying absolutely nothing. Great job. 

Oh, and this:

Story of niothor's life. He hasn't quite made it to my ignore list yet, but keeping up with the 'Everyone here thinks X, because I say so!' is one of the best ways to do that.

Back on topic: I lol when ChartBuddy just has a straight line down the center. Everyone scared to make a move, eh? Looks like it's time to get me some more fiat on the exchanges.

3k sell, followed by 2k buy an hour later... lol wtf is going on here. If it's the same person, they made some dough.

Day in the life of bitcoin.

Yeah, still trying to find a good buy-in point for the additional fiat I transferred. Looks increasingly likely that this won't be any time soon, but hey. Let's see how long we hang around near $100. Maybe I'll just add to my trading stash so I can make more money off the n00bs like Coinseeker 

Well, Miz4r, I hope that indication pans out 

I think you missed the implied "wink wink"


EDIT: Also, he was illustrating the point of how easy it is to LEGALLY avoid taxes, provided you have lots of money. The more money you have, the easier it is to take advantage of legal structures specifically put in place to help rich folks avoid taxes. So that they can then donate to the political campaigns of those who put the legal structures in place.

Everything is going according to plan.

Sure, that bit was referring to the remainder of his post, where he did illustrate several ways rich folk can legally avoid taxes - methods generally unavailable to lower-income brackets. I may have been a bit hasty in my quote-pruning.

As for the boating accident - cashing out through an exchange (and your bank reporting the >$10,000 deposit to your bank account to the IRS per regulation) isn't the only way to cash out.

Hmm, everyone expects price to continue going way down into the double digits.

So that behavior/expectation must already be priced in, meaning we're not going much lower than this! 

That said, I'm still expecting low 90's within a week from now. Unless the manipulators are REALLY GOOD at keeping it close to $100.

Actually, including moon cycles is a standard feature in nearly every bitcoin charting service... from bitcoinity to clarkmoody. Who needs complex indicators when you've got the tide on your side?

up uP UP? 

OMG LTC ON GOX IN JULY


BUY BUY BULY BUY BUy bUYBUY

CampBX indeed lacks liquidity.

Deposit and withdrawal options are solid, though. Dwolla, bank account, USPS money order by mail, personal check by mail, etc.

Full disclosure: I have Jaroslaw on my ignore list but not ElectricMucus.

On topic: Yeah nice to see my sub $100 buy orders touched on CampBX. Last night I was expecting to wake up and see $95 this morning on Gox, but to no avail. The overly bearish sentiment as of late has started to backfire and now we are short-term oversold. Remember, once everyone agrees on a set of price targets, we will not ever reach them 

The big dumpers seem to have gotten wimpy. Choo choo!

Why would anyone be surprised? Because in 1700, a grain of silver bought you the same amount of parsnips as it did in 1600. In 100 BC, an ounce of gold bought you the same number of slaves as it did in 200 BC.

In 2013, a dollar bought you... 10, 50, 100x less of a certain good than it did in 1913.

Unless, by "the concept of money" being deployed, you specifically meant fiat money. Fiat money is designed to steal money from people over periods of decades. Just because it took 100 years to steal 98% of peoples' value, doesn't mean it's all of a sudden OK.

Yes, certain people are interested in keeping the price around $100.

If the market really wasn't comfortable with that, the price wouldn't still be there. So you can't really say that it's "artificial." The people putting up the walls don't have unlimited powah.

No, not until JPM and Goldman's Sacks start selling paper BTC on the stock market, and the price inexplicably effects the price of real BTC.

They will be shorting 63 million paper BTCs and people over in the "Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP" thread will be like "There's only 21 million bitcons, yeah, but it's a total conspiracy theory, there's absolute no way JPM and Goldman's Sacks are actually manipulating paper BTC price. Have fun being the bagholder."

 

Feels nice being short on BTC and long on LTC and USD.

Feels real nice.

 

You misread.
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/07/01/winklevoss-twins-file-to-launch-bitcoin-exchange-traded-product/
They are not "bailing out," they are offering shares of an ETF based on bitcoins. Not quite the same thing. In fact this is good for bitcoin as it could attract more institutional investors who want to be able to participate in Bitcoin on traditional markets. This is something they can understand and trust. Good old winkii twins; they've got our back.

All signs point to sell.

(Unless you are daytrading or running a bot in which case all signs point to buy sell buy sell buy sell buy sell)

I think people have a harder time accepting a bear market when it's going slloooowwwwllllyyyy.

If the crash happened in a day, well, it already happened, so folks have no choice but to accept it. After spending this much time in the $80s and even hitting the $70s.... come on, people, let's get this over with.

That's why you keep coins on 3-4 different exchanges.

CampBX shuts down? No problem! 75% of my trading stash is still accessible. Comes back online? Great, now I have 100% again! Sure, trading on multiple exchanges sucks... until one of them goes down and them you remember why you put up with that... It's annoying until some major price move then you find yourself unable to do ANYTHING, just sitting there watching the ticker with your jaw dropping as you lose 10%, 20%, 30% of your investment.

You still only really need to deposit fiat to one exchange. You can get "fiat" on any other exchange by transfering coins there and selling. See, even with BTC at $5.00 you can still use it to transfer $10,000 from Virwox to Bitstamp to manage the risk of too much fiat on one exchange. Cool beans.

Jarojaw backwards is giving people false hope. I wonder how many deniers are praying that he's actually a really rich guy about to make a $100M buy order.

CampBX spotty all day, their explanation is something about how the bitcoin-bound portion of their trading engine is 20-30x slower than the 20ms trading engine itself, and they are working on a way around this that still retains the "bitcoin-bound" portion, and the "other exchanges" just work around this by doing everything completely off-chain. They say they will have a fix by the end of the month and by then they will be "more like NYSE and less like MtGox."

This is according to their Facebook. Note that I make no claim to the technical accuracy of this information and whether or not they're talking out of their ass. To me, it just seems like yet another bitcoin exchange failing miserably at scaling to volume during significant price moves.

There's still too much optimism regarding $50 to call a bottom. When adamstgbit turns bear, that would be a good contrarian indicator. 

Inverse Jarojaw, you need to step out the way so the rest of us can reap massive profits re-buying our coins at $17.

Things will settle down to 70ish, buy support will form, and a whale will dump tonight 

I mean, if the past few weeks is any indication.

Frozenlock, that 2012 crash is not as formidable when you consider that the run up was 6 to $14, a whopping 230% vs our 2013's ~2000% or 2011's ~3000%.

I like the bear-trolling though. "Can you really hold your position?" Certainly keeps folks on their toes.

Heck, to make it even better - I'm leaving for almost 2 weeks with absolutely no access to internet or cell phone. In a few days.

I thought about leaving the PW to one of my exchange accounts with a trusted friend with instructions on when to buy back or sell depending on certain SMA crossovers. But I'm not going to do that. We'lljust  see where we are when I get back 

If BTC goes up again, well, I'm still holding enough so people can't laugh at me. But if it goes down, I'm set too. *popcorn*

Can't Gox just get in bed with Internet Archive FCU? I thought they were putting themselves out there for Bitcoin companies now... maybe they're too small for Gox's $$ volume.

More likely at this point. I'm being cautious about this recent price movement.

Hmm, looks like NASDAQ pulled a MtGox today for a few hours...

That's one less quasi-legitimate complaint for the useless idiots to use against Bitcoin.

This is why bull traps are so effective
 

EDIT: For the record, I am not claiming that this is or is not a bull trap, or making any comment whatsoever on the trappish or untrappish status of the recent price movements.

I think a lot of people realize that even with the insolvency/seizure risk (and low float rate) it might still better to hold six figures (or more) on an exchange rather than withdrawing and declaring taxes on it. This obviously depends on our cost/benefit analysis.

They can mitigate this risk by buying BTC when the exchange has a cash flow problem or is facing regulatory scrutiny.

One could analyze the cost/benefit ratio this way: One could determine the risk of holding X sum of money on a given exchange (or multiple exchanges) and subtract a conservative amount of risk for proper management (i.e. going all-in to BTC when the risk of seizure/insolvency increases). They could determine the tax liability as well, which is the risk of withdrawal. Compare these risks against each other and one can determine whether it is safer to keep USD on an exchange (with the caveat that it must be converted into BTC, exposing one to exchange rate risk, when the regulatory or cash flow issues present themselves) or to accept the tax liability.
 
Obviously we can argue all day and night over which strategy has more risk, since some of the risks aren't easily quantifiable. We don't really have the data to asses this (we'd need everything from WMA bitcoin exchange float rates to % recoverable funds to current "bitcoin VIX" or downside move stats tax liabilites in various jurisdictions) but I'm sure there are some people who are starting to realize they can use the exchanges as a 'non-anonymous yet no-tax-liability so long as I don't withdraw' offshore bank account to some degree, holding their fiat there forever and then purchasing, shuffling and anonymizing BTC for purchase OTC or to anonymously/pseudonymously purchase real goods and services without having to declare the income first. I'm not saying this is an invincible strategy, but the law enforcement burden would be enormous, and there are most likely rich folks out there doing exactly what I have described.

EDIT: In case the feds are reading, I don't have anywhere near enough money to even consider myself "a rich person trying to evade taxes on the internet," so please don't waste tax dollars investigating my broke a$$. I'm merely speculating on what these bastards are doing with the bitcoin price.

Darn. Charts in log scale aren't very good at scaring people into selling all their bitcoins.

I also cast my vote in favor of this measure, which seems more relevant than the ChartBuddy issue anyways.

As long as CB is small, 3d, and accurate, I don't particularly care, but it'd be nice if it only updated hourly when volatility was significant. Otherwise once every 6-12 hours is probably sufficient.

Last few times people were 100% convinced of this, the gov't managed a last-minute deal. Sure, "This time is different." Who knows, it might be. But forgive me for being skeptical.

Looking at China volume you have yourself a legitimate suggestion there.

But if you had said that months ago on these boards you'd have been laughed at 

"Bah humbug, all news is bad news, this won't have any effect, everyone in China who matters already knows about it."

... I was just about to go to bed.

(Still going to bed! Just might wake up a few times  )

Uh hey, 904 CNY, and I think I said "900 CNY here we come" yesterday. I wasn't expecting it THIS quick. Where's the correction? My god, people, SELL something already...

Edit: And gox JUST hit 159... what is wrong with you people? NO ONE wants to panic sell? Jeez...

Yeah I'm not sure whether to be happy about $159 bitcoins or sad about $1.86 litecoins.

Well, only $159 if I live in Japan and can get money out of Gox. Otherwise $144.

That reminds me, I have a bunch of months-old sell orders on CampBX and Vcx in this range... I should probably go re-bid that fiat to catch the correction...

Still plenty of bears here. No worries folks. Just look around, you'll see their tentative, uncertain, whiny comments from time to time.

For the record: I'm not one. up uP UP!

 

In Cyprus, they went after business accounts too. Entire businesses shut down, some had to lay off workers, some couldn't even do payroll because hundreds of thousands of dollars suddenly disappeared from their accounts. One member here owned an IT-related business in Cyprus and saw his balance go from $800,000+ to $100,000. He laid off everyone and moved the business to a different country.

It doesn't mean anything as it's not actually approved yet. But when it does get approved, it means institutional investors and firms will have an easy way to throw funds at BTC without actually holding BTC. (Not sure why they'd want that, but hey.)
Of course as more shares are bought, Winklevii will have to purchase additional BTC to be represented, and of course as shares are sold they'd liquidate. Not sure *exactly* how it works, but I think that's the general gist. In the end, purchases of this ETF will (not-quite-directly) contribute to increased demand, and also the opposite.

EDIT: I'm not sure what the above poster meant by "about to cash out." Filing or approval in no way means Winklevii will be selling any or all of 100k coins at market the instant they are approved. They have to own the coins that the shares represent. They don't get to just sell them when ETF is approved, that makes no sense and then they wouldn't have an ETF. They hold the coins as specified in the filling. As more investors pile in they'd have to purchase more coins. Or the opposite. You get the picture.

Is it really necessary to say "stamp price" Considering that Gox price would be...
360?
512?
1015?
LOL.
And considering coinbase has been just under Gox (at least earlier this week it was), so now the "Goxbux" fanatics don't have any more ammo (since anyone with "goxbux" can sell on CB for 3% under)

It's like we haven't had spread between exchanges for the entire history of bitcoin! It's like people are just discovering it now... I remember when BitFloor was a whole $5-$10 over Gox and no one was whining about "BitFloorBux" and how "BF price is fake!" Then, it was a normal spread due to multiple factors. But when Gox is higher, it must be a fake price, cuz... Gox! A [not huge, but] significant portion of Gox memberbase CAN get their $$ out - the whales, and the folks with Japanese bank accounts. So I think the "Gox effect" is overstated.

Well, after that flash "crash," I'd think folks are a little hesitant about pushing the ATH tonight... maybe tomorrow.

But I might have to eat my words because the way things have been moving the past few days, perhaps the market doesn't WANT to take a breather!

In April, Gox had most of the volume. So it was reasonable that a partially-lag-induced panic sell would lead prices on other exchanges down as well.

Now, Gox still has a significant share of volume, but far less than the 80% (lol) they used to brag about. So there is less likelihood of this 80+ minute lag affecting the other exchanges as much as it did in April.

Why don't you stop making shit up. Overlay the charts from different exchanges over the last 2 months. You can clearly see which exchange leads each move provided the X axes line up. Sometimes one exchange leads, sometimes another exchange leads - it's not as simple as "X exchange sets the price." There's a lot of back-and-forth now that the volume is evened out. This isn't april so stop pretending that Gox has 80% of the volume.... that's another thing you can check rather than making shit up. Go look at volume charts.

Don't be a noob: "Today, I saw Gox lead a move, therefore, MTGOX sets the price of the market. QED!"

Don't get goxxed! 

As for price movement - we've been trading in a very narrow range for the last 10 hours. Something's gotta give. This is bitcoin, remember. Stability is usually rare and short-lived. Nice wall at 385 there but it's gonna get destroyed.

Crash to single digits! Sell sell sell!

Hmm, it looks like we've gone from way-beyond-exponential to slightly-less-than-that-but-still-way-beyond-exponential.

Bitcoinity and Bitcoincharts both down for me? Time fo' bed 

University of Nicosia, a private university in Cyprus, started accepting Bitcoins as payment for tuition.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-21/drugs-assassinations-and-now-college-tuition-bitcoin-adoption-spreads

Also, decision for whether or not bitcoins can be used for political campaign donations in US - due today I think? My memory's a bit fuzzy so I might be completely wrong on that.

Go BTCitcoin! up uP UP

Wow, so many people convinced a crash is coming. Maybe I should sell all mah coins 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18AzodTPG5U

Price isn't moving because everyone's busy pumping alt-coins.
 

We're not in the clear yet; we're still over 1k yuan away from the CNY high from earlier this month.

I'm delaying my celebration 

Still celebrating LTC and NMC tho ;-)

Up 15% in 24h 

Too bad that's what everyone said as we were approaching $200 for the second time ;-)

We've been trading in this very narrow range for quite a while now.....


IT AIN'T GONNA LAST FOLKS 

Especially since Gox traders upped the ante by randomly increasing the spread the other day and then keeping it there....

Everyone's waiting for Jan. 31, for SEVERAL reasons, but I have a feeling the patience won't hold until then.

Get your seatbelts on, folks, we're either going straight down screaming, or straight up (still screaming.) There is no middle ground with Bitcoin.

It's funny, a couple weeks ago I purchased a significant quantity of DOGE for EXACTLY the same reasons.

(for the lulz + BF's bullshit)

Anytime I hear rumours about ______listing taint systems, misplaced core dev team priorities or other such bullshit, I buy some more altcoins.

I've made far more from alts than I have from BTC, lol. 

But BTC still pretty much dictates the entire crypto market so here we are.

Almighty Gox shoots back up to 0.950 (oops sorry, $950) right before I hit the hay... wut the eff.

Whatever happens Jan.31, it's already priced in by the whales. 

Hmm, we appear to be on a train headed for the moon. This was nice to wake up to.

Relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9TmQQQGddQ

I liked the part where you inserted a innocent DOGEcoin plug.

Are you retarded?

1) BTCChina literally JUST announced that they are able to accept bank transfers again
2) BTCChina literally JUST started marketing their Maker-Taker rewards program where liquidity providers earn rewards for acting as market makers (providing liquidity). Thus providing an INCENTIVE for higher volume.
3) It's Chinese New Year, an approximately 8-day period where chinese people get drunk off their asses and light fireworks. Drunk trading = volume spikes. The booze just kicked in.

But YES, let's just ignore the plain facts, put our tin-foil hats on, and assume it's some evil, pencil-thin-mustache-twirling, cigar-smoking, monocle-wearing, rich lunatic in a dark room in BTCChina headquarters basement purposely manipulating the price to whatever end. Occam's Razor, fuckwad. 

0% trading fee makes it possible/easy for people to trade coins back and forth and create volume where there otherwise would be less

Does the maker/taker deal provide the same incentive for the whales with bots? If so, we might just be looking at an effect similar to the 0% fee, rather than some pencil-thin-mustache-twirling chinaman in the BTCChina basement making up trades.

Get your tinfoil hats on! Whomever is manipulating the price to keep it in this narrow range is going to run out of bitcoins eventually ;-)

I hear bitcoin days destroyed is goin crazy so maybe it's some of the early adopters at work... trying to keep the financial apocalypse at bay for just a little while longer... 

What the fuck? Someone pinch me:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/raining-catcoins-dogecoins-opray-winfrey-reality-show-backs-animal-cryptocurrencies-1434629

Two meme-based altcoins featured on the Oprah Winfrey Network before Bitcoin?

This article is SO WEIRD. Especially the thing about the shelter, and the schoolkids being taught about cryptocurrencies........

5000 CNY soon? Well they're probably going to bed soon so only time will tell... nice to see $820+ on stamp again though...

Eh, hmm.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/can-bitcoin-save-the-post-office-iQx5kWnzQI~iWL2ZmNNm0A.html

Price is tanking, Gox just hit $850 for a second. Back up to $856 and Stamp at $781. Yeehaw! Maybe we'll see $600 within the week 

Well, confirmed bad newses take a while to have an effect on price. 

Gox dropping and stamp more-or-less staying the same is a good signal in my book. It needed to happen sooner or later.

(Of course I'd prefer if stamp rose to meet Gox, but that wouldn't make sense, now would it.)

Fuck. It was a good run guys... but it's time to quit bitcoin once and for all. Show's over. A bitcoin is only $700.

No, they're doing the HODLers a favor. The more FUD there is, the more the panicky idiots sell, the faster we get the CRASH CRASH CRASH over with.

In today's paper:

(Note that he is holding a small coin with a "B" on it)

Bitstamp up 1.25% in 24 hours... what happened at Gox again? Lol. 

This has been one of the most glorious flash-crash days I have experienced.

billiejoeallen, you are more or less correct regarding the inflation issue. While Krugman et al, and all the other keynesian weenies will lambast deflationary currencies because they "don't get spent," what is really the issue here is that inflationary currencies are a "hot potato!" They lose value over time! So correct, there is little incentive to thrift and save, or "ECONOMIZE." Many people forget the definition of the word "economy." So in viewing inflation as "good" because it "encourages spending" and thus stimulates the economy, we can easily forget that it is a slippery slope, a runaway path, and not a sustainable way to stimulate the economy. A healthy economy is actually economical - not full of useless plastic crap and exploitative business models, and an endless desire to consume consume consume, a bottomless pit of consumption.

We can actually view inflationary fiat currency as a wild variation of the "broken window theory" - give people money that damages itself, and it will be spent faster, and in a less sustainable fashion, than money that slowly increases in value or at least remains stable! But keynesians see it being spent more, and spent faster, and see this as a positive thing no matter what the consequences of a "spend all the money!" type of economy - filled with bubbles and useless crap.
Doesn't change the fact that it is outright theft, and is the complete opposite of "economy," to use that word in its original sense.

Malleability workarounds should be implemented soon, and after that, 2 Da Moon!

We gonna test $600 again tonight on stamp? I sure hope so 

On the 24h chart we tested it 3x, 4th time's the charm? And by "the charm," I mean we plunge through and everyone freaks out.

Well, today's exciting. Gox down to 120, Bitstamp finally flinched... but the traders on other exchanges are still VERY hesitant to follow Gox, as they should be.

Just hit $620 on stamp, let's see if it holds... lol

2 DA MOON BITCHEZ 

I just SODL, so we're probably going up even more. 

Price slowly approaching my buy orders...