Posting in this thread for posterity. I was there for the last Goxxing we'll ever experience.
Thank. Fucking. God.
You are wrong.
mtGox will return.
I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.
I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.
Gox, or a company planning to takeover Gox, can right now buy 8 GoxBTC IOUs for 1 real BTC at BitcoinBuilder. This would be a legal way to give depositors a voluntary "haircut" outside of bankruptcy. Eyeballing the bitcoinity chart, it looks like they've done about 80,000 GoxBTC in trades. A lot of this was swing trading, but perhaps 20,000 GoxBTC have been bought for an average price of 0.25, or 5,000 BTC.
Of course we can't know, but if this was a coordinate effort to buy up the IOUs for cheap, then this action could have reduced Gox's BTC liabilities by about 15,000 BTC.
If the 750,000 BTC loss is FUD, this might make sense...
That's a good way to look at it thanks! Would it not be possible for Mtgox to credit an internal address with 1000 GoxBTC / IOU's, deposit them on BitcoinBuilder and buy up real btc?
I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.
Gox, or a company planning to takeover Gox, can right now buy 8 GoxBTC IOUs for 1 real BTC at BitcoinBuilder. This would be a legal way to give depositors a voluntary "haircut" outside of bankruptcy. Eyeballing the bitcoinity chart, it looks like they've done about 80,000 GoxBTC in trades. A lot of this was swing trading, but perhaps 20,000 GoxBTC have been bought for an average price of 0.25, or 5,000 BTC.
Of course we can't know, but if this was a coordinate effort to buy up the IOUs for cheap, then this action could have reduced Gox's BTC liabilities by about 15,000 BTC.
If the 750,000 BTC loss is FUD, this might make sense...
That's a good way to look at it thanks! Would it not be possible for Mtgox to credit an internal address with 1000 GoxBTC / IOU's, deposit them on BitcoinBuilder and buy up real btc?
Both scenarios are possible: your's where they create fractional-reserve fake GoxBTC in order to get real BTC [and criminally increase their BTC liabilities], and mine where an interested third party buys up the GoxBTC for cheap [to reduce Gox's BTC liabilities for the takeover bid].
Your scenario is fraud pure and simple, while mine I think would actually be legal. I hope that I am right, but, at this point, who knows.
I'm thinking they will do whatever possible even illegal, in order to make good on customer deposits to avoid some type of investigation/prosecution.
Their liability figure for all we know could just the actual dollar/yen withdrawals it wants to make good on, and dollar/yen deposits it plans to refund - taking into no account internal customer btc/fiat balances.
I think it would be signifiant to know if Gox is planning to disclose a record of its customer account balances, or if it will try to keep that private.
I looked up what this meant posted on mtgox.com
ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING AN APPLICATION FOR COMMENCEMENT OF A PROCEDURE OF CIVIL REHABILITATION
1 Answer
Japan’s Civil Rehabilitation Law was intended “to enable application for rehabilitation procedures and the commencement of such procedures prior to the occurrence of bankruptcy factors.” [1] Holding the creditor meeting is arbitrary [2] to enable a debtor to continue with the execution of its business and management/disposal of its assets, [3] and otherwise sustain operations, while committing to corporate rehabilitation.
Although the Corporate Reorganization Law applies only to joint-stock corporations (kabushiki kaisha, or KK, in Japanese), the Civil Rehabilitation Law covers all companies, including foreign-affiliated businesses. Although management can begin corporate rehabilitation on its own prior to the stage of collapse, the law was enacted as a “process to prevent business failure.”
Under Civil Rehabilitation Procedures, assets and liabilities are reassessed as if bankruptcy has occurred, [4] and expected bankruptcy dividend amounts are established. This assessment of assets is conducted, in principle, on the basis of selling price, [5] and a dividend based on the liquidation value is applied to the rehabilitation creditors (principle of liquidation value guarantee [6] ). However, civil rehabilitation companies continue their operations in principle and do not actually liquidate, so any earnings from their remaining assets can exceed reassessed liquidation value, creating a framework in which a business can be rehabilitated swiftly.
Corporate rehabilitation has been limited to a select number of companies in Japan. Among small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), many companies are unable to find financial support and are forced into bankruptcy (i.e., liquidation) without any prospect of reorganization. According to a survey by Teikoku Databank, only 2,841 of the companies that filed for protection from creditors under the Civil Rehabilitation Law obtained approval for their rehabilitation plans. That accounts for only 66.7 percent of all applicants. [7]
Any speculation as to why LTC/BTC and LTC/USD are going down a bit? Litecoin seems to be an even bigger bear market atm.
Generally when bitcoin takes a cold, alts take swine flu.
When bitcoin comes down with a cold, alts get swine flu.
bitcoinbuilder rallied to 0.107 hahaha. that can't last long.
I just sold the 10 GOXbtc I had for profit, I did not expect to be able to do that.
wait. Is China north or south from Mexico?
china is south of mongolia which is parallel to greenland so south.
objectively we are in a b*** market.