Don't usually post over here on Speculation. Like to watch it though. Just had to comment now, as the above post made me laugh out loud. Its the second laugh I've had today - the other was when Mrs.Practical Dreamer texted me this morning whilst I was waiting in the dentists waiting room - she knows I shit myself at the dentists so she thought it would be funny to text me that I was waiting so long on account of the dentist being busy "revving up his angle grinder". It made me laugh at least - which I was thankful for at the time.

Back on topic re. current bitcoin price slump. I know it sounds sad and as if I have my head up my arse (where my opinion should also rightfully dwell) but I'm seriously thinking of trying to find a few quid (dollars for you yanks) and buying a couple more BTC at this price level.

The fundamentals are still good from where I'm sat.

Its difficult to know exactly at what price point the panic is going to be exhausted. On top of panic, it seems more than likely that the price could be being manipulated down.

Why ? How ? I don't have a clue. I'm just speculating.

They're speculators. Speculators lifeblood is confidence. Confidence is down.

But what has changed other than confidence ?

Stand firm. Have the courage of your convictions.

Didn't you ? I'm surprised that you are surprised, tbh.

In addition to my surprise at your being surprised I am, in addition, rather surprised that the price hasn't risen more, given the imminent threat to the Euro that is playing out in front of our eyes.

How long we been in the 200's ?

Almost $40 between stamp and huobi. Makes me ashamed to be in the west !

Any chinese members out there want to do business together ?

$51 - there's something amiss here isn't there ?

Inefficient market - this has to get ironed out over time.

There must be someone with feet in both camps making a fortune - but not enough of them to plug the gap.

+1

"millions of deceived people with lots of money looking for something that is not corrupted to put a very small amount in."

Yes - and that applies to us all, not just the Chinese.

What ? At a 10-12.5% instant loss? Surely there's a better way to acquire $ than that.

No - I reckon if those bilateral channels were available you'd be taking the (as we speak) 15% profit in CNY. You'd be a very rich China man very quickly.

They tell us it was complex military planning and the internet/encryption is to blame (George Osbourne today). But to me it was 8 blokes meeting in a cafe and agreeing to die at 11pm. They synchronised watches. How complicated is that ? It went on before encrypted network communications, and it will happen after. Except after, we'll all be compromised - and powerless.



 
Yes - spot on. You'd think that by the extremely small numbers of people that actually seem to get it, that it was rocket science or something.

He may well be - but I have to say that       a) stuff like this is good entertainment ( in a slightly bored and listless kind of way) on an early Saturday evening whilst I'm preparing a curry, and            
      b) I've got to agree with the troll in this particular case. I've been following this thread long enough to know that the only ones to have made real gains are holders. Calculated risk ? In a rigged market ?

BTW - my Dad was the only Heavyweight Champion of the World to receive the Noble Prize for Physics. Where does that put my argument, relative to yours ?


Anyhow, on with the curry.

As you were.

What I was driving at is that an appeal to authority is always hollow.

The American Dream.

Anyone know what proportion of BTC is produced in China/held in China/sold out of and into China ?

Without this info I don't know that I can put too much store in this theory Jorge.

"...the Chinese people becoming richer relative to the rest of the world"

They are - but I'm not sure its attributable to the reasons you've cited.

You may be right - I wouldn't claim to know enough about the subject to be able to put forward a coherent argument one way or the other.


However :-      
             a) the arbitrage is not that efficient between East and West- it was only a couple of weeks ago that there was $50 difference between Huobi and Bitstamp, Chinese BTC being at the premium,  and

                b) it has been said that the diametrically opposite position (re. China/BTC) is the one being held by the Chinese than the one you have posited - that is, they are prepared to take a loss in Yuan just so as to be able to convert to USD and so shift "value" out of China.

 I dunno.

    

Where's the demand in the west coming from ?

Possibly - but shouldn't the oversupply on the western exchanges hold down prices ? I mean, the price on Huobi has no material effect on BTC in the west - might as well say BTC is trading at $10k in China - makes no difference to us, materially/practically.

Are we that gullible ?

It isn't arbitrage this way round - i think he's saying that the Chinese are prepared to take a hit just in order to acquire USD.

And we also are taking a hit in order for them to do so. Unless you know the timings of course, which, as Jorge says, is best known by the exchanges themselves.

Hey, whored.

How much have you lost to BTC buttercup ? Not in time BTW, which you continue to haemorrhage, but in $'s. A couple of k ?

Tell the truth now - don't be a deceptive as well as an ineffectual troll.

Come on whore, we both know thats bullshit. And I did ask you for an honest reply.

As a matter of interest, how many accounts do you use to troll through. Its kind of fascinating TBH, all this personality disordered adolescent craving for attention  - in the way that looking at an animal pickled in a jar is fascinating, you understand.



Help me to understand, whore.

I'll ask you again. How much are you down ?

The first step is admitting it to yourself. You can't change whats past, pettle - but in acknowledging it you might stand a chance of moving forward.

How much you lose whored ?

Were you scammed, did you gamble it away or were you just trying to be a little bit too clever ?

Either way, there is a way forward.

"My name is Whored/clopoterian/isabella - and I'm an alcoholic arsehole who lost more than I dare to admit trying to get rich quick"

The journey to the mountain top was commenced with a single step etc etc

Thing is about being a troll is that you have to bring something to the table. You can add to the debate. You can,likewise, contribute - albeit in your own dysfunctional way. It won't ever benefit you - but it might, on occasion, benefit the rest of us.

You might also, be funny.

But you have neither brought anything to the table nor made anybody laugh.

You are vacuity dressed up as metaphor.

You are without use - to man nor beast.

You are wasting time - time that you could be using to make a life for yourself - and making up for those losses you have incurred. I'll bet you haven't told your parents yet neither, have you whore ?
The great thing (as well as the terrible thing - just depends on how we choose to view it) about life is that we don't know what tommorrow will bring. But I'd suggest that in your case whore, it can only get better.

I think my work is done here. I've got some paint drying that I need to keep an eye on.

Chin up buttercup  

Whilst we'd agree that were I to be battered over the head (unprovoked) by a headcase with suppressed homoerotic tendencies then I would be the victim of a violent assault  IOW violence - I wouldn't agree that if I were to raise my fists in defence I could likewise be classified as aforementioned headcase re violence. That would be self defence.

You might say one were feeding the troll - which could well be regrded as a crime in its own right (guilty as charged in this particular instance) - but to suggest that there is some kind of parity between that and the original crime is ridiculous in my view.

As for your hypothesis re. sideways movement, I'd tend to agree FWIW. I wouldn't be arseing around with pricks like the multiple personality failure that is cleopatra whore if the price were rising at $10 every 35 minutes thats for sure.

Your real loss isn't the amount of bitcoin/gold/dollars that you've managed to divest yourself of.

You are at a loss because you don't believe in anything anymore.

You are in the wrong place TBH - this place is populated by people on the make - you'll only find here that which confirms your negative bias.

Try here :-





How much did you lose BTW? I don't suppose it really matters - its all relative - you might only have lost $20, but for you that would have been a large amount.
I suppose it would just be interesting.

All the best buttercup.

Just to say - The Uk will vote to leave the Eurozone in the upcoming referendum.

Is this the reason for the price surge in BTC that is upon us ? No, I doubt it.

More like the Chinese filling their boots.

And who can blame them ?

BTC is still high risk - divert funds accordingly.

The disadvantage of investing pension money (Self Invested Personal Pension) in an ETF, for eg., is that it puts the funds on the Govt. radar.
Whats wrong with putting funds into a cold wallet ?
Or is this what you were meaning ?

Property and other personal tangible assets aside, I reckon maybe 80% of my net worth is in stocks (and bonds unfortunately - via my pension scheme - they are statutorily bound to invest in (low yielding) bonds - low risk etc ). I am exposed to gold in an ETF, and of course bitcoin for the rest.
I'm not so sure about having the gold in an ETF TBH, though it has been giving good returns. Just a bit worried about their solvency long term. Just seems better than holding physical gold, for various reasons.
I have considered diverting some of my pension funds to an BTC ETF myself - but on balance I'd prefer, for the reasons stated by lightfoot, to hold my own, so to speak.

What happened to Stolfi on this thread ?

I miss his intelligent lack of nous.

Yes - that is my concern. I'm just hoping that the circumstances under which the paper might ever need to be redeemed are a long way away I suppose. But it is a bit of a gamble, I grant you. People were saying the same thing about credit in 2007.
I'd love some physical gold, but a) not the same tax advantages in the UK  and b) security concerns.

What you really need is a fireproof and obfuscated passphrase to your wealth held in your possession. Something like this :-



No tax advantages - but it has outperformed all my other investments by a country mile over the last few years.

God bless the Chinese - God bless us all.

Possibly.
However, the Fed has pencilled in interest rates of 3% come 2019 - this, from .25% a few weeks ago. Bond rates will follow. This will change the game for pension funds.

Whats up with Stamp - almost 10$ behind finex - and almost 40$ behind huobi

Possibly - I've heard that said before in these parts. Personally I find it hard to believe that the Chinese are willing to take such an instananeous hit to their wealth.

Could be that the Chinese are carrying this market and that we are the laggards (not us personally of course - but nationally)

Agreed - but wouldn't you use BTC as a hedge - rather than cashing out into $ at an immediate and substantial loss ? When, after all, you live in China/Venezeula etc.

We all here believe in bitcoin - we all know that the potential is huge.

My main concern is that the current price is too heavily dependant on the Chinese. Cos ultimately, if China did have a crackdown on their exchanges, the price could well tank.

I know the volume in China can be misleading, but when the western exchanges start leading the charge this will be really bullish.

Realistic targets for BTC ? For me personally $5k is not out of the question within the next 3 or 4 years - and that also so happens to be the point at which I will be telling my boss to shove his job up his fat overpaid arse.


Come on bitcoin !!!

Here again - as if to make my point, we are dumping and the Chinese are holding fairly firm.

We lead the dumps , they lead the rallies.

OK - looks like someone somewhere is having a final push for the line and wants BTC to end the year on a high note.
I'm in the UK - 6 hours to midnight. How far can the price go in 6 hours ?

What will be the price this time tommorrow ?

My guess - in the range $975 - $985 on Stamp

Happy New Year to all bitcoin evangelists everywhere - we are the early adopters still.

Well done boys

Yep - one here Spooder. That would be fantastic.

The crazy thing is, I've tried to explain bitcoin to quite a few people over the last few years. Some have nodded approvingly - but most have been sceptical. But none that I know of have acquired any BTC. I'm watching this rise on my own (so to speak)

The one I'm waiting for is $1163 on stamp. And I'm starting to think I might see it before 23:59 GMT.

I have spent so much time watching the price over the festive period its embarassing.

Yes - I'm hoping that the top of this run is so high that the ensuing bottom is still well above the previous ATH.
Given that we still haven't reached the ATH of several years ago (on Stamp) yet then this currently has to be a long way from being a "bubble".
When I was telling Mrs.Dreamer of the recent run her enthusiasm waned as soon as she realised we hadn't even reached the previous ATH. I could have gone in to market cap etc - but, to be fair, she had a point.

$10k + - then maybe talk of a bubble - but not before.

Just now we are looking at organic growth. I personally am amazed it was so low for so long.

Are we watching the power of the whale dump being eroded ? At least on Bitstamp - I don't want to contemplate a Chinese whale dump.

I used both of those - Circle was OK. Not used Coinfloor for a while (and when I did it wasn't for long) - little liquidity.

Not sold for a while - tend to buy on Localbitcoin.

Have you tried Uphold - it used to be called Bitreserve ? As you are being paid in BTC it lets you hold your value (BTC) in various other assets ie. gold, platinum, $ etc.
Transfers out in GBP are no worse in fees than anywhere else IIRC

I don't think the guy was ever anti bitcoin - I think it was more a case of that he saw BTC as the oil in the machine - the everyday punter would be using it, but they wouldn't know they were using it, type of thing.

The Chinese Govt. themselves are filling up on BTC - just like they did on gold.

There will, after all, only ever be 21 million of them.

Stamp is a pilot fish.

Becoming kind of irrelevant WRT price discovery.

I only follow it for nostalgic purposes - just want to see that ATH go.

Who would win if someone weighing 19 stone went in the ring with someone at 7 stone wet through ?

Its not that stamps price is invalid in any way - it is what it is - but its not reflective of the wider population distribution.

What role does shorting play in a market ?

What does it bring to the table ?

Serious question.

Or is it just parasitic ?

What if its not being borrowed. What if I (or we) can put in $500mil - and this shot in the arm brings in another $20mil new money on the back of it. The $500mil is then liquidated - taking with it (lets say) $10 mil of the money that was put in extra on the crest of the wave.

$10mil in a week isn't bad going - even for someone with $500mil in the bank.

I think maybe that this is how this market is going - purely because the market cap is low.

Follow the log.

Time in New York 13.10 - are they back from their lunch yet ?

3 hours to go - 21.10 gmt ?

Those that sold at $1350 and bought back at $975 - I'm absolutely facsinated at how you managed it. How did you know ?

Actually - forget it - you are talking out of your arses.

Re. Stolfi. He's carved out a niche for himself. Not many people understand crypto, and they welcome an "expert" like Stolfi to assure them that they needn't bother trying to understand crypto.
Stolfi is happy - and his minions are happy. Job done. A big pat on the back.

Its quite sad really.

While I'm at it - I'd just like to relate the fact that I think that in the aftermath of the ETF rejection the price holding at circa £1185 is very fuckin bullish indeed. Kind of makes me proud for some reason.

Gotta feel for the Winkles a little bit. I know they are privileged cocks - but they believe in BTC just the same as the rest of us.

If I were gay I'd give them a big man hug 

Great advice - don't try to spread the risk. Just go on instinct. And, if possible, buy at $200.

Easy to be a wise man with hinsight.

Missed a trick though - should have bought at $5

It was you being lucky and bragging about it.

And then offering bad advice.

If you can call the tops - and the bottoms - then you are a better man than 99.9% on here.

For the rest of mankind cost averaging doesn't seem like a bad strategy to me.

Yeah - look, I'm not wanting to start an argument here but your post doesn't make much sense. And, FWIW I bought at the same price point as yourself and the other guy.

You say that you are in the 1% that just "knows", on the balance of probabilities. Yet you state in your post that even though you had money set aside for sub $100, the price never went that low so your (potential) order wasn't met. You made the wrong call then, surely ?

How are probabilities arrived at in this market ? "Aligning probabilities" is a posh way of saying you are calling the top and the bottom.

Its my contention that you are unable to do so - and that, therefore, a cost averaging strategy, especially for those who might just be entering the bitcoin invetsment space and weren't fortunate enough to get in at a lower price point, might well be a very good strategy indeed.

That, or just buy and hold.

But don't try to second guess this market.

Yep, very clever - but in my book probability has to be based on material precedence - or its based on nothing at all. Where is the precedence for this market ? Upon what is your probability based ? If there are probability clouds as to the location of an electron around the nucleas of an atom, then I would suggest that the movements of the electron are way more deterministic than the movements of the bitcoin price market.


No, it wasn't wrong at all. Thats not the question though. You claimed that reading the direction of the market was (at least if you were one of the chosen few, such as yourself) the shrewd way to go. I am claiming that that is bollocks - not least because the variables that might indeed be a useful pointer as to the "alignment of probabilities" are way too numerous ever to be of any practical benefit to the likes of you and I. You claimed that you have had a strategy other than cost average/buy and hold, and that was to buy the dip - yet the only apparent buy that you've planned for post $300 was never met .....


....you brag and boast, as did the poster I was originally responding to, as if your gains were down to something other than good fortune - indeed, you seem to claim that your gains have been down to your succesful employment of clever trading strategies.

I say that you are bigging yourself up and have no better grasp on this market than any of the rest of us. You are being disingenuous.

Please, I would be more than happy for you to prove me wrong - put down, here and now, based on probability, the price movements of BTC/USD over the next few weeks - or if you prefer the next couple of decades. I will happily stand corrected, and in due course become a rich man on the back of your knowledge and understanding.

They are trying to establish a sequence with a few variables, to discern a pattern. Its human nature - all too human, and in this particular case, all too flawed.
That is the best case scenario - worst case is that they are trying to kid you and I into buying into the sorcery.

Fibonacci ?

My royal arse. Too many variables old chap.

This is bitcoin.

Agreed - but we are at the point that the word/descriptor Jew/Jewish can't even be used without it being immediately flagged as anti semite. This alone should be ringing alarm bells.

And you think this is dumb

Re. IQ. No-one knows WTF it is. The ones that do well by it/by the tests are, generally speaking, those that have something to do with the formulation of the measure ie. the problem is sociological.

Just recently read an article about childrens pictures of humans being the next/latest best measure of IQ. Next week it'll be wether you eat your bogies or not when you are 20 months old.


You judge a tree by its fruit.

Nuff said.

Fucking hell - you must be from a different part of town to me then.
Knightsbridge ? Chelsea ?

My old mans house was worth fuck all when he bought it - aaaand..............its still worth fuck all.

Well, all things being equal, that would appear to be fair enough - with one big proviso - the IQ measure is valid and reliable. And not, for eg., a pleasing reflection in a mirror of your own choosing. I'm not convinced either way TBH.

We all would kind of like to believe (in a meritocratic kind of a way) that the cream rises to the top - its the whole ideological bedrock of western civilisation. Just doesn't ring true to me.

Even if it were true, it would show to us one clear truth - IQ does not equal moral value.






And I suppose the question would be - which came first ? The high score in the (almost) arbitrary intelligence test, or the money ?


Agreed - or put another way, the ability to adapt, in evolutionary terms, to a given environment. How can that be reliably measured though ? And who would do the measuring ?
 And its not as straightforward as having money. Far from it.



Thats arbitrary. What I mean is, any other criteria could be used and said to be the correct and valid measure (as it often has been and even today is) of intelligence. Who is to say whats correct ? Thats the question.

Tell you what - you define intelligence (but it has to be something other than who owns the most bitcoins/$/land/oil cos thats a non starter) and maybe I'll have a go at defining moral value  

The streets are full of trustworthy and diligent functionaries - but so few practical dreamers.

Its going above $5k before the year is out.

ps. do you know what my forecast was at the beginning of the year ? $1500 or thereabouts. WTF do I know.



Neither do I buddy.

Creativity ? Independance of thought ? Courage ? Originality ?

Who decides what is of value ?

The question isn't so much one of how to measure intelligence - its one of how do you reach a consensus on what it is that you are supposed to be measuring.

In the real world there is no consensus - but the predominant/prevailant view is that held by those that are in the positions (that have the power) to define . That is, it is defined according to power relations.

The whole system is dysfunctional and one that is stifling to growth and creativity.

The intelligent are those that have the most money ?

Where could that possibly go wrong


Human resources are being grossly laid to waste/underutilised. I can imagine a future where each individuals strengths are allowed to flourish - and where we can all reap the benefits.
How many Einsteins, Tolstoy's, Wittgensteins are there out there that have not only never been given the chance - they have never even believed that they were able ? Very many I would say.

That is a very good idea Searing. I have all manner of shite laying around that could well raise a few quid.

How do others here feel about paying $4k for a coin when you might well have initially paid $400 or if you're lucky $4 ?

I feel a bit odd about it (not done it yet BTW). Would pull up my cost average for one thing. I suppose that at least if I were to buy from the 'attic' then it wouldn't seem so bad.

But I do still believe - and, I suppose, now more than ever. $10k is well within sights over the next 18 to 24 months. What other investment could give me that kind of return over the same timespan ?

If you want my advice as an ex smoker, explore vaping.

They do if they are wankers. Fools and their money etc

TBH I don't reckon that even if I were worth what the Bitcoin 'Jesus' is, I would be riding around in a 'lambo'.
Ostentatious displays of wealth is never cool - and I'm too old to be trying to impress bimbos of easy virtue.

And that, sir, is exactly what this thread is all about.

''Oh, come on nurse, give me a kiss''

''Do behave yourself Mr. Jones - and I shouldn't really be tossing you off either''

Some of my best friends are as thick as pig shit  

The guy going on about Afghans having lower IQ etc is a racist imperialist knob. Next he'll be saying we are doing them a favour by occupying their country - we are teaching them civility, bringing them culture etc.

Nothing to do with Afghanistans strategic geo-political importance of course  

There's nothing quite like blaming the victim to guarantee a good nights sleep.

Give me the next in the sequence - fish, chips, mushy peas and.....

There was a famous IQ test in the states that was used by the military to decide (prior to a war - I forget which one) who was officer material and who was to be cannon fodder. Many taking the test were recent immigrants. One of the questions was a picture of people playing tennis on a court with no net. You were meant to spot the missing net.
Where could this possibly go wrong ?

The more you think about it the more difficult it becomes to formulate a test that isn't culturally biased to some extent. Of course, when you are the one doing the formulating this is not always immediately apparent.

Jamie Dimon.

Very wealthy etc.

Does not have a fuckin clue about bitcoin.

Either that, or he does have a clue about bitcoin, and its because he does that he perceives the risk.

Personally I'd say the bloke hasn't got his head around bitcoin at all.

He's not the only one. Seems to be a slew of the sceptics at the minute. Supposedly clever people some of them as well.

Social network effect + social confirmation bias + self fulfilling prophecy + Judaist cultural values lending themselves well to capitalism + various historical and cultural bias's regarding money lending/usury etc.

Not necessarily more intelligent, no matter what the IQ tests say.

The problem I have here Ibian is that you seem to be valuing 1) IQ  and 2) wealth acquisition as the measure of the man. Its neither.

I do however agree that immigration policy should be based around the potential value added to society that the individual might bring.

The correlation between wealth, power and opportunity and income is much greater than that between intelligence and income.
Much greater.

Apparently, under Jamie Dimons guidance, JPM now have a new recruitment 'IQ' test for graduates hoping to enter the business. The first part tests the candidates knowledge and understanding of 'blockchain' - the second part inquires as to their propensity to invest in bitcoin.
Those candidates that prosper (and so become wealthy) understand blockchain but wouldn't invest. Those that go back on the dole queue and can't afford children all said that they would have invested in bitcoin.







Been worth coming to this thread just for that 

Cryddit surely ?

Definitely Cryddit - 'Once Bitcoin became successful, there were copycats. More than three thousand short-lived cryptocurrencies using the same protocol have been launched. At this date most are no longer extant. For a while I tried to keep track of them as they passed, and tried to record at least a few words about how and why each one failed. But I couldn't keep up, and besides, it was too depressing.'


Its legit.

I think, in a well articulated nutshell, you have just encapsulated Cryddits concerns.

I know this is a speculation thread and everything, but who amongst us, that aren't just here for the quick buck and who actually 'believe', hasn't had concerns over how something as pure as bitcoin could be commandeered by influences something less than benevolent ?

So long as you aren't trying to lead anyone up the garden path on the way, then yes, I can't see why that wouldn't count Ibian.

After all, your belief in the bitcoin fundamentals and your making a really huge quick buck are not mutually exclusive.

But pssst ... when you cash out don't cash out to dollars hey ? Maybe property or something.

Yep - the people that they are supposed to represent don't like losing control too much either.

Bitcoin will become a political issue - that is, decentralised global peer to peer cash will become a political issue. Being as how no-one is controlling bitcoin, it seems like a difficult argument for TPTB to win.

Question is, which governments will lose the least by regulating favourably for bitcoin ?

Financial freedom has always been a political issue.

But the game has changed - the question has been chrystalised. And unless the answer can be sufficiently succinct then the argument will be lost.

Only need a few 'bad apples' (ie. govt.s with more to gain from BTC (and the financial emancipation of its citizens) than they have to lose) and the whole house of cards could well come crashing down.

US is looking good to me. China is moving towards dumping USD as reserve currency + US has a long ideological history of freedom of individual etc.

But more likely it will take route, on a national scale, in smaller countries first and foremost.

Having said that, Japan is looking good too.

Agreed.

You are correct.

It wasn't a scientific paper - nor was it meant to be.

I thought the analogy between proof of work and the Protestant work ethic was interesting. It has been argued that the protestant work ethic is the spirit of capitalism.
Personally, were I religious to any great extent, it would be of the Catholic variety. There are Protestant churches where even the singing of hymns is outlawed - too much like having a good time apparently. Not for me sir - too austere.

Nonetheless, I can see his point.

Its definitely him chaps. I don't quite understand the animosity TBH 

Pseudonymity Torque. Pseudonymity.

But yeah - I here you, if rock solid proof is what you are wanting.

But why would he give it - to you, or anyone ?? I wouldn't, I know that much.

Christ, no-one (bar my father) knows how many BTC I have   And that info is considerably less dynamite than that which CSW holds.

Each to his own.

If only life were that binary. Things would be simpler. And a lot duller.

''One clarification that often gets left out of this debate is that a better version of PayPal can be built on top of Bitcoin (ie.via Lightning) in a situation where the base layer is used for the digital gold use case. But it doesn’t work the other way around — you can’t build a more secure system on top of a less secure base.''  https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/2017/11/09/failure-segwit2x-shows-bitcoin-digital-gold-not-paypal/#7938e5972233

Thats about the size of it for me at this point in time.

I know I'm not as sharp as I used to be. I'll admit that here and now. But the penny has only just dropped that Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold are two (concerted) prongs of the same attack.

At the minute (pre Lightning kicking in) BTC is basically having the quality of digital gold. But what they are doing is now trying to subvert even that function. If you want bitcoin to be as gold, well, you have Bitcoin Gold. For everyday transactions you have cash(BCH).  No need at all then for legacy BTC. The attack is co-ordinated and it is real. Not only that, but collectively the BCH folks have a lot of weight behind them.
Dump the fuckin pair of them. Lets keep Bitcoin of the people and for the people.


We really need some big wins from Lightning now. What is the latest on this front, anyone have any ideas ?

With Lightning the 3rd world will have access to bitcoin payment channels. And the BTC ecosystem will still be decentralised and working in everyones interests and to our mutual benefit.

On the other hand (and we have several hundred years of precedence to give a concise answer to this) when did centralised corporate interests ever give a flying fuck about the little man, third world or otherwise ??

OK - I'll go with 16/04/2018. Thanks micgoossens.