Why on earth do you think large growing companies SPLIT their stocks? Is this is not obvious to you?

With free trading, anyone could.  You could build an exchange on your notebook that trades with itself and have beaten gox with free trading.

If you look carefully, Gox's wall was always reinforced after it has been eaten into, at a time I saw only about 6000 BTCs on the ask side.

Could be a bad one over the weekend, looks like this has steadied out though. Wondering about BTCChina, there seem to be a lot of back and forth trades doing nothing but create volume, maybe just invisible walls there :/ That exchange is strange that way, it's nearly empty yet it stays more stable than the USD exchanges.

Can any Chinese get money onto BTC-e or Bitstamp? If they could, we would see those prices soar in days.

is somebody here trading on btcchina?
how are they dealing verification and withdrawals as european?

opens for me

BTC 80000 volume in a day, 2000-2600 CNY range, mostly up, some significant amount of money must get in I guess, it's very easy to withdraw in China so I guess hardly anyone keep their fiats on the exchange.

But I don't understand why CHINESE people don't do this. You don't need an American partner or a trip to America to open a USD-denominated bank account.

Pretty much every Chinese Bitcoiner should be cashing in on their 50k right now...

What happens if they run out?

I suppose if there were all buyers and no registered sellers on an exchange and the buyers placed all their coins in cold storage the exchange could run out of coins the same way bitstamp seems to have run short of fiat.

Kinda glad GOX doesn't have the market now, with China we might have a chance

Bitcoinity appears to be very, very broken. Btcchina is showing about 400 CNY higher than it actually is right now.

Funny... bitstamp and gox climbing, but btcchina is going down ...

Just wait to see what happens when 60k coins are rapidly dumped as it happened on April, 10th.

Guess you're new here Last weekends dip was about 60k dumped and it crashed the price to... where it was 3 days before. No one knows where the hell this is going but in terms of volume on the exchanges and panic buying we're at about $120 on the April rise.

Large scale dumping tends to happen in stages.

For example someone dumps about 4000 BTC like we just saw.

The price will then quickly recover on low volume and everyone runs around congratulating themselves and patting each other on the back because they were strong and for 'holding' their coins instead of selling.

The wealthy guy just made a shit load of money off the back of those who didn't sell.

As soon as the bids fill in it happens again.

This is if one person is dumping. If another whale is watching (and they will be) it will be a race to see who holds out the longest before dumping.

As far as I'm concerned this is how a mass dumping event happens. All it takes is one or two to play the dumping game at the same time then others join in. Before you know it there's a free for all and everyone who's actively trading dumps their coins, exchanges get overloaded and the price bounces around like a ball bouncing down a stairway.

How do you know ? the crash has not started yet....

question: why don't we open account on btcchina and make some arbitrage with bitstamp? 30% guaranteed..
am i missing some point?

More and more am I starting to believe that BTCChina is (for a large part) fake.

- Their volume reports are ridiculous. On the 3 minute chart they have almost exclusively 300 btc per candlestick.
- The whole rise-up at BTC-China seems orchestrated. Every sharp rise is nicely crafted into a short dip which then recovers in order to make others believe that it's safe to buy

And most compellingly

- During the crash the volume stays _THE SAME_ throughout. There is a sharp drop, but no panic selling at all! The volume is constant. This does not make any sense to me.
- Notice how every downward candle towards is also attempted to be caugt immediately - many many intermittent recoveries during a crash. It just doesn't make sense.

It's almost as if the whole exchange is scripted to make fake orders to amplify any movements seen on Gox. Zero trading fees would allow this.

=== I'm just speculating here ===

Yes, I saw that happening too. BTC-e and Bitstamp had some normal organic trades, while BTCChina ground to a halttogether with MtGox. Good that you bring it up. It fits my hypothesis (which is only a hypothesis at best)

As a reply to the guy asking what they would benefit: it's evident this rally is based upon "CHINA IS GOING CRAZY BUY BUY BUY". Knowing that, and having the power, and having money at the other exchanges, you can influence the movements and make a killing.

I don't think so. Everybody knows what everybody looks at: price and volume. It is general consensus (wrongfully) that the exchange with the highest volume is the 'leading' exchange.

Both price and volume can be easily faked. Make it onto the generic chart indexers, and you have yourself a perfectly orchestrated fake 'leading' exchange.

Also, notice how nobody is actually able to access btcchina.com at all, apparently for several days now.

Are you seeing a double top, or am I losing my mind? Still momentum in your opinion?

Someone gets it!

Can I also add to the conversation that fact that one of the most popular (and profitable) btc gambling sites went down MOMENTS into the first big crash from 900 levels on gox? I refer to primedice.

Some suspect he absconded with the funds and sold when he could https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.2140 (I know some may think of the commenter as a troll, but there is often truth hidden within the "spam" of some people).  If that and the fact that some very established members have sold the majority of their holdings tells you nothing about what is will happen within the next little while... Well you are on your own.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

you guys think this rally has steam left? we havent broken 400 yet. im holding but cant help but think this might be a long slow slide to <300

Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.

Well the only reason i can think of why someone would try to sell BTC10k around midnight US east coast time (and 0500 - 0600 in Europe) is to manipulate the market. Think we can all agree that if he wanted to cash out he could slowly sell of in smaller chunks and get MUCH more $ out. The sell brought gox down from 590 to  500 and subsequently to 475 on lower volume following up. If the goal was to induce panic so the whale could reenter at lower position think it's safe to say that so far he failed as the market held out pretty reasonably so far, and i feel will recover soon. Now if Gox had 70% of the market as in April this would've been much uglier. So unless the price drops down to $400s that manipulation stunt will cause our whale A LOT of $, and hopefully will deter other a$$holes from trying to manipulate the market (and we can get back to a more natural mass panic snow ball effects instead of one person instigating the avalanche) just my 2c

It is late and my apologies if I sound over-all bearish - I am but momentarily a bear. Crypto currencies are the future of commerce, that is clear, for many technical reasons. The question I wrestle with is will it be BTC in which the value of that technology will be stored?

Looking an awful lot like that was a bull trap.

Any chance of this turning southward tonight?  I want to go to sleep but not sure if I should.  Seems like when I go to bed the opposite happens from what I want it to do.

What bot would you recommend?

icbit.se leaderboard. Dayyyumm.

Imagine the utopian mass adoption that's being fed to the public.

Take a small country (or a large American city) with about 15 million inhabitants, or 5 million households.
Every household will have to do groceries about each other day, so that's 2.5 million customers in supermarkets each day countrywide.
Day has 24 hours, so that's 104166 transactions per hour
= 29 transactions per second

And this is for one small country only, for only the basic needs (food), and that's already 4 times what the Bitcoin network can physically handle.

You're not going to convince me that the Bitcoin protocol will ever be able to sustain a world economy for day-to-day transactions.

Hence why I'll always be bearish, even though it's a great market to profit from atm.

That is incredibly sage advice and I just might take it. Really. Some people should read this carefully. You are absolutely right, being a billionaire overnight is not healthy. Not even being a millionaire overnight is healthy.

Should I take a picture of me eating a meal cooked exclusively from ingredients produced by local farmers who accept Bitcoin?

I have too much fiat compared to BTC holdings

Do you think 850 is a fair entry point ?

Could it be the last time we see 850 ?

I wasn't expecting that. China has pretty much been dead for well over a week then out of nowhere they smash straight through 6000. What happened?

I wonder if China will dump their LTC and jump back on the BTC train...

Can someone who speaks Chinese verify this:

China Telecom Accepts Bitcoin:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1roulj/china_telecom_accepts_bitcoin/

Is no one else here seeing the possibility of a correction or down turn here??


I said 3 days ago I was bearish. Based on basically 1 thing - the correction looked like real market tiredness and the ensuing recovery looked weak.

Then yesterday when we caught fire, starting to go up on higher volume. I said I was a bull again.

But here we are again, on Thursday, and the top is stalling out below ATHs.  Look at the weekly and 3 day chart and they look suspicious. Just look at those charts. It 85% angles.  And where are those red candles?

If we dont break ATHs in the next 24 hours I think the rally may have topped out.

I know, I know, that's crazy talk.  But that's also one huge massive bear wedge on the 1 and 2 hour charts.

So does it mean that BTCChina must close?

Can Chinese corporations not invest in commodities?

So guys , explain it to a newbie , will it go down further? :p

But didn't China ban it as a currency too? In that case probably the main purpose of bitcoin is void. I'm not saying that's the case but that's what I heard. Banning the banks is moot, who cares? But banning the currency aspect of bitcoin is really not cool.

What are the chances of Chinese banks boycotting btcchina and other exchanges now? I can imagine the banking partners of btcchina getting antsy at this news.

What about merchants? Can they still accept bitcoin without any problems?

I now have 50 times as many bitcoins as I did in April. No deposits. Yes I am up 25,000%.

It might not be due to TA though, but more about quick reactions and having a feeling about the flow the order books are moving in and when they're reversing.

Discovering margin trading helped a lot too.  I don't even really have to sell or think about when to sell my core position. I just wait for any kind of a sharp drop and then as soon as high volume support starts kicking in I buy a huge margin position using my btc as collateral. Then as soon as the immediate bounce is over I close the position, take the ~15% profit, and buy more bitcoins to add to my core position. I might not be getting the most profit on the margin position possible but it covers my ass both in event of an uptrend or a downtrend. It's kind of a compromise between buy and hold, since I'm never actually selling any 'real' bitcoins.

I like your way of breaking it down.

I have been advocating to new comers to strive to attain the Bitcoin Millionth Club. Basically you need to own 21 btc, this will make you 1 in a million people on the earth who could possibly own 1 million of all future available bitcoins. Obviously we know the numbers will be massively different due to mining time and bitcoin loss over the years, but its an attainable number and would offer massive wealth in the future. Imagine you owned 1 millionth of several of the worlds largest countries currency? Happy days!

We are simply returning to "pre china" numbers. Chinese are dumping hard. They controlled the huge price increase now they control the decline.

Sold at 1200. Bought at 600. Doubled my bitcoins from 2 to 4. I wish I had more, but I'm not complaining.

It's not about who has the most BTC.

I've lost lot of sleep in last few days too. Bitcoin going crazy and my wife and mom having surgeries in same time made me to sleep very unregularly. I sleep when I find time to do it, there's no part of day I do it regularly in last 10 days. 2-3 hours, then wake up for few, then 2-3 again and so on, lol

IMHO, most likely that's a false news.

No bank and payment services for exchanges simply means killing all exchanges, then it makes the previous official announcement (allow people trading BTC as virtual commodity and add more regulation to existing exchanges) a joke.

More likely the original version of the news is just reiterating that banks and payment institutions cannot use BTC in their accounting, and someone spread the false version for their own interest.

According to that 'fud' news chinese investors will have till spring festival to withdraw their funds from the exchanges, from what i can decrypt on google translate. So it won't be similar panic buy if ever this news is confirmed..

So what would this mean? No more chinese investors?

Is that worse case scenario?

Because I don't think that's such a horrible thing. Always seemed short lived to me.

If this news is true, my understanding is that all current services are stopped and only licensed exchanges will get new services. License will only be given to a few exchanges under regulations.

Anyone that can read Chinese, what does the yellow sticky note on OKCoin.com say?  That's new I think.  Its an image and I can't translate it. 

What's wrong with BTCChina?

I don't think it was 2...far too precise, micro and descriptive a move for the Chinese govt.  I think it was introduced to take advantage of the sell-off they knew was coming with the announcement re. money-transfers and to take some heat out of the market.  I wouldn't interpret it as a sign of closing.

So that's what is going on.

Thanks.

I was never quite confident that China had any real long term future with bitcoin. And I would rather, in an ideal world, have bitcoin be driven by people in countries that have more freedoms, because from a PR standpoint it makes bitcoin appear more solid as well.

really? is this how you say "thank you china"? if they hadn't panic bought a few weeks ago the price wouldn't even be above 300 right now

We still have no proof that BTCChina is shutting down, correct?

Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1.  All yuan transfers to BTCChina are banned.

2.  Only 3rd-party payment processor transfers are banned.  That is, you are still permitted to deposit and withdraw to/from BTCChina using your bank account.  (This change was made so that China could keep a better track of capital flows for AML purposes.)

3.  This is all FUD and nothing has changed.

It won't crash to zero. For example, the exchange operator could buy up all the cheap coins, and sell at a higher price overseas.

And also, theoretically, people could deposit with cash.

I still dont get why there is no official statements from either CCCP or payment networks or exchanges.

Bitcoin is way beyond China anway. I dont expect any future services/features built on BTC coming from China. As for speculative vehicle, btc will be used for anything from tax evasion to capital leaking in China if this the way CCCP choose to handle btc.

As much as they want to control Internet content, the best they could do was steal Google and forced Baidu..... well not very effective is it?

How big is your stash? It's quite different to double 100+ or 1000+ coins than 10.

Maybe the answer to this is coming soon........

BTC China told CoinDesk it is expecting to reinstate deposits in RMB soon. Bobby Lee said he is now working with another third party payment company to try and reinstate RMB pricing, and is hoping to make an announcement on the Weibo account in the next few hours.

This will now be the firm’s third payment provider relationship inside a week. Lee brushed off worries that the new relationship could also be placed in jeopardy by PBOC’s most recent move.

“If this keeps happening, ten times later, will I keep going? I don’t know. I can’t predict the future. But for now we’re going to try one more time, to see,” he said.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-falls-btc-china-exchange-shuts-fiat-deposits/

Every exchange is now following the movements of this one exchange which is seeing liquidity cutoffs, government action, a reducing order book, and a reducing volume, and has led us to 3 crashes this month (in a downtrend) - who knows what their government will put of of their ass next. Yet all the exchanges still follow it move by move and tonight it does something and every goes 'yay rally time to the moon'. I dont get it.

Tell me how you'd do it, please.

Bitstamp has the best liquidity of all exchanges. Its where most people actually enter and exit the ecosystem. If you  have or want cash in a bank account its most likely going to be based on that price. Bitstamp is also a very important hub for nearly all of bitcoin's commercial integration and services. The trendy thing to do right now is to integrate your service with bit stamp to perform all btc to fiat conversions.

By the same note I also consider bitstamp to be btcs single point of failure (centralization). Any FUD involving bitstamp would be really bad - much worse than even huobi/china. This is probably not how satoshi envisioned bitcoin working.

PS. Still hypothetically speaking, suppose that you own an exchange and your clients have entrusted you with 100.000 Bitcoins.

Suppose further that the Bitcoin price is 100$ and has been stable for a while.

Thus your company's current assets include a pile of bitcoins worth 10 million $.  But that is a totally unproductive asset, like having a pile of cash locked in a safe.

So you decide to sell most of those coins at other exchanges and invest the money into stocks or something that will yield a return.  You take care to leave a reserve in a "hot wallet" for the occasional withdrawals. You also pick an investment that can be quickly liquidated, so that you can buy back the coins you sold if the hot wallet is not enough.

But then there is a big unexpected  rally, and the Bitcoin price eventually stabilizes at 800$.   

Some of your clients eventually want to withdraw their bitcoins; some sell them at your exchange, for 800$, and want to withthdraw the money.

Either way,  you now owe 80 M$ to your clients, but still have only 10 M$ invested in stocks...

I bought at 200$, when bitcoin was actually covered by an famous news program in China that is known for representing the Chinese government stance. I sold at around the start of December, when there were no volume to support the price going up and it got clear that China won't have any legal potential with bitcoin. I only bought back once around 800, for couple of hours after I sold again. The last reason was only because I was intoxicated and bored.
So, you religious/lying sack of excrement, don't tell me about having no vision. Pricks like you have been telling me 2 month, that NOW it seems like the price is picking up again, making up childish reasons like "China doesn't even matter!". And for all those two months I held my own decision with only winning by doing this. The slow downfall just continues and continues and it's not difficult to see why.
Delusional pricks like you make me feel shame of my interest in bitcoin, because you do make this place look like a cult or a gang of crooks.

So why do you buy Bitcoin, and not just donate to Bitcoin related start ups, if it´s not about making profit?

But speculators who chant Choo Choo and are delusional about the future contribute more?
For instance how do you contribute to bitcoin? or how does windjc?

If you buy bitcoins to store value, then you probably don't know much about money.
Bitcoin value is only held up by speculation, so trusting bitcoin to hold your wealth is giving your money to the bitcoin hodlers and trust that they won't cash out. That is naive as an investment and a naive way to deal with wealth.
If you want to store value, then buy resources like rare-earth metals, that are in constant demand together with technological advancements and their supply is constantly getting tighter. Bitcoin is not rare, it's only decided by a group of people that it is rare. And you are also trusting a group of unknown people that it will stay rare.

This simply can't be right unless a few insiders were stealing them.

On page 4, that article by Academic Prof. Kristoufek says
But "btcnCNY" is BTC-China, which at the time the article was written (after MtGOX was found to be insolvent) was essentially dead.  No wonder his fancy wavelet method found no influence of "China" on the USD price.

He must be excused however, since his source for price series is www.bitcoincharts.com -- which STILL refuses to admit the existence of any Chinese exchange other than BTC-China.

Maybe they intend to redistribute the Fed's coins before the impending sale?

But this is not a few months ago. A few months ago tons of people started buying because they expected the price to go up. Instead they got dumped on, day after day. They sold and left and won't make that mistake again. Neither will all the people who watched it happen from the sidelines. You see, that's the "problem". These people actually do learn from their mistakes.

Keep in mind that pretty much everyone who invested in Bitcoin this year lost money. Almost a full year. Exactly at the time everyone expected something great to happen. This damaged Bitcoin so much. So many here underestimate this. They think they just can keep crashing the market, pick up cheap coins and go back up again. You can't.

After 5 or 6 years now investors are gonna say fuck it. I'm not gonna put money in something and get dumped on day after day by greedy traders obsessed with cheap coins. The previous years was ok for that. Not anymore. This year was the year to get serious. But everyone who tried to invest lost their money because of traders and dumpers. What do you expect them to do? Invest again?

Anybody remember when the price went up and you thought shit I should have bought more coins while they were cheap...

... well now you can !

Can you idiot traders just stop dumping after it goes up 5 dollars? Just give it some damn room to grow for once. Don't worry, you won't get poorer if the price goes up.

It's because the triangle cult has blind faith in their trendlines. Of course if the lines fail, they will have a crisis of faith, which leads to dumping.



It's how markets work.

Since some people from 2 or 3 years ago are still around, I think it have some influence.

Also the TA people use the same technique, so it in certain sense influence them too, even if they are not here since 2 or 3 years ago

if that line get broken? better watch out. in no way "meaningless".

Nope, learn about history; Mark Karpeles pumped every 10x pump of bitcoin He is gone now and you have all year seen the effect of it. Enjoy your cheap coins and dreams of becoming a millionaire by sitting on your ass. I will tell you a bit about the future price of bitcoin, if it stays over $100 it will be a miracle (in 2015). Mark Karpeles is gone and also most of the deepweb sites which was the only true incentive to purchase bitcoin.. so do the math (hint: no demand at all, except traders (btw, the whales you guys talk about is pretty much the exchange operators)).

Thank you.

I also think the claim that bitcoin is cheaper than CC is bogus.  Cost per transaction is all time low and it's still around $8-9.  A year ago it was almost $80 per transaction

https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction

Bottom lineis if i pay you $100 in BTC you'll get $99.99 worth of BTC. If i pay you $100 via credit card you'll get about $97 and it'll come with additional risk of chargeback if i decide to dispute that transaction as a bonus

Buys are coming in because Bitcoin will soon be in the faces of every Facebook user via ChangeTip. Lots of new Bitcoiners will soon enter the space due to this increased exposure.

What do futures mean and do to the "real" market? I dont really understand what they are or why they are traded -- if you dont mind explaining

you know that hong kong is not china?

Guys, I know most of you are not that familiar with exchanges like BTER so let me share my experiences. I know BTER very well. Most of my BTC holdings have come from trading ALTs on BTER, just lately I have started daytrading bitcoin since ALTs have been pressed so hard into the ground and there is no much action there.

BTER worked like a charm until some strange things didn't start happening. First is a NXT hack of about 50 million NXT (4000 BTC at the time) that happened 6 months ago. The situation surrounding the hack, negotiations, moves that were being drawn after the hack are least to say bizarre. It can completely compare to the ''my cold wallet got hacked'' from yesterday. But OK, it can happen to anybody we said!

Than there was a BITBAY fiasco 3 months ago. BITBAY was a new breakthrough smart contracts technology by the David Zimbeck's blackcoin DEV and the others. IPO was held by BTER. Coin was literally dumped. Many people lost money. Some days after Skype transcripts came out to show that Lin, owner of BTER was heavily involved into this scam.

Now this raised many red flags in the community, why would a reputable exchange be doing this kind of crap. Everybody that was doing business on BTER after this event, were scared and in a sense BTER was a wreck waiting to happen. Every time I deposited coins after this to BTER was just to buy and GTFO. Of course, this too was sometimes day or two long in order for orders to go through. On Friday, a night before alleged hack, I withdrew my last 2 BTC from BTER since the order was standing there for too long, guess I was lucky.

Conclusion: All of us in ALT community was suspecting that BTER was on fractional reserves since the BITBAY fiasco. This is probably what happened. Two days ago he realized that this won't last much longer, he moved the funds and said how he was hacked! If you are asking me, yes, this was an inside job!

Yes there is a side to take. If BTC can be hard-forked, how can it be totally trusted as a Store of Value? Currency, in and out, sure, no problem. But if someone has the power to hard fork, we are back to centralisation again, which is the antithesis of BTC. Does not matter if it is put out there as 2 options for people to choose between. Fact remains, there is the power to change the parameters, push out a fork, and the value of your savings is dependent upon what the majority choose. Does not sound like the trustless currency that I thought BTC was.

Pure PoW is a failed concept, because the main threat lies in software vulnerability and increasing hashrate doesn't solve this threat. General hashrate of the network doesn't secure the network from software vulnerabilities that could plague the major mining pools or even the majority of users. PoW security concept is gimmicky, because it depends on the notion that the software is 100% secure. Piece of software doesn't only have to depend on it's own security properties, but also on the security properties of other software it depends on. A similar vulnerability to the heartbleed bug could could compromise the security of the entire cryptocurrency network. Some cryptocurrencies that have adopted PoS into the equation, can offer the same level of security but with A LOT cheaper costs. This means that the odds of winning are a lot better for the speculators, because they don't have monkeys mining on their back. Monkeys whose "work" has very little real use.

It's not necessary to have a huge hashrate, because huge hashrate just isn't necessary when the main security threats lie in somewhere else. It's like having iron bars on your windows while your front door is still secured by linen cloth.
Most of the BTC related businesses aren't only BTC related. They are related to cryptocurrencies in general, because most of these companies can offer the same services while quickly adopting new innovating cryptos. The owners of these companies and their investors know that the future is in the field of cryptocurrencies in general and this (r)evolution won't end with bitcoin.

Yes, now you are starting to understand what the crypto scenery is all about. It's about an idea and it's constant improvement by better innovative software solutions.
The lazy fortune seekers just want to find THE COIN, so they can buy it and sit on their ass, so they can just be rich while doing nothing. In reality, the scenery will remain highly dynamic for the coming decades, before more refined solutions come out, that can't be perfected much more. But in the closer future, cryptos will start to get old quicker and wealth will start to move around quickly to new and better solutions. It's a nightmare for all the bartenders and and cab drivers who came to the crypto world seeking easy riches. It means that they actually have to understand the bigger picture of things to predict the winning outcome.

Disappointing that we seem to be getting dumped on. Really hope we can hold in the 260's. I don't want to see 250's & 240's ever again to be honest. The next move is kind of critical, I have literally no idea which way we'll go though.
It doesn't seem as clear as it was looking a day or two ago.

Like always? aha-moment just happend for you?

It is until it isnt. The writing is on the wall now. I am of the opinion this is going to be very bad for bitcoin.

Add into that prorogation time of the conflicting clients, ie if the vast majority of clients are running core and not relating bigger blocks then propagation of xt blocks would be slower and there is the chance that they wont be relayed before a core block is propogated and begun to built upon.

Exactly. And BitcoinXT looks like an altcoin IMHO.

All Gavin fanboys are screaming: Scale or die. They just don't understand that increasing the block size is not a permanent solution. It's a quick fix.
And like every quick fix in your life, its consequence is always bad.

I'm glad I moved everything I had off Bitfinex before this downtime and the flash crash before it. I'm annoyed I missed a chance for cheap coins during the flash crash, but relieved my coins aren't stuck on Bitfinex now. I was toying with the idea of moving my coins back to Bitfinex in case there was another flash crash. Thankfully I never did it. will there be another crash if/when Bitfinex starts trading again?

Agreed. Hashrate should follow price, but it seems like during those two massive increases it was the price chasing the hashrate.... Someone better suited to scientific analysis of data sets would do a better job of analyzing this relationship ( hint, hint, Professor Stolfi )  

Anyways, I don't expect any further large expansions in mining technology or efficiency, certainly nothing on the scale of cpu>gpu>asic.  

Many people mocked me many pages ago for my concern that the block size could not simply scale exponentially for the next 20 years, but I still believe we are reaching the limits of physics and any further significant exponential type gains in computing power beyond asic will likely take us beyond the singularity. I just hope our new synthetic overlords accept bitcoin. (Ok, yes, I've been watching too much humans (tv show))

gemini adding new coins.....https://blog.gemini.com/introducing-multi-user-accounts-and-performance-upgrades/     

Can't we make a thread called "let everyone one fight over bitcoins issues and developments" and let this one for TA and graphs about speculation? 

The probability of a hostile takeover by the PRC goes up as $/BTC goes up. So if we continue on our upward trajectory, the only question is what's gonna kill us first, the commies or fullblocalypse?

Aaaand... the debate has risen to the tenor of "accusations of cockgobbling"



Way to go Samson Mow, CTO of BTCC

Bobby Lee must be proud.

LN promises to take away >90% of the fees generated per block, of course Samson Mow hates it...

i agree with the other guy
yes, we need R&D on LN and sidechains
just don't force me to buy it. pre-order

you sure?
well in that case i'll just say that, i'll take Gavin's thing over Mow's thing...

Bitcoin, like any so-called crypto currency, is the old like world scheme of Ponzi. Only in the new high-tech pack.

Want an example? You are welcome:

1. Assume that all people in the world convert half of their savings from ordinary national currencies to crypto-currencies. What does it mean? This means that the producers of crypto-currency, received half of the world's volume of national currencies - half of the total world currency bascet.

2. After a while, the fictitious value of investments in crypto-currencies increased 4-fold (as we see in the case of Bitcoin and the mass of other crypto-currencies). What does it mean? This means that now, every person in the world, reasonably expects to receive in exchange for his crypto currency (as a return on his genius) in 4 times more volume of the national currency.

3. Let's assume that all these people, at the same time, decide to fixed their investment profit-to exchange their crypto-currencies that went up four times, (if they take profit in the form ordinary national currencies).
All of them expect to receive now 4 times more national currency than they used to, they spent on buying crypto-currencies.

QUESTION: Where does this whole currency come from? From producers or producers of crypto-currency? But they simply do not have such volumes of ordinary currency, and never were. Because, previously selling the Crypto currency, in exchange for the usual currency, the organizers and the receivers only received the initial value of the crypto currency in the usual currency. Which was at the time of the transaction only - 1/4 of the amount of currency, which is now payable to all owners of the crypto currency.

CONCLUSION: Bitcoin, like any so-called crypto currency, is the old world scheme of Ponzi. Where each participant can receive a gain of the investments only one way - due to those new participants who have entered this pyramid later.