If BTC was guaranteed to be a good store of value and unit of e-commerce, I'm unsure how many people would still be interested.
If Bitcoin was steady at say $300 and fluctuated by at most 2% daily [always returning to the original $300 in these fluctuations] and say
it gained 3% in value yearly; I highly doubt a lot of people would be here.

A large group of people don't actually want to use BTC I think, they just want to speculate the price and "get rich quick".

We are still heading down.

I wish BTC would just stop falling. I'm not asking for a bubble here, I'm asking for it to find a value point and cease losing it.
I'm not even a (big) holder of alternative cryptocurrency anymore, I just want BTC to become a reliable currency people feel safe
value wise holding onto.

Microsoft purchased Mojang for 2.5 Billion USD. Bitcoin's total market cap is hovering around 4 Billlion USD.
So it looks like all Bitcoin in circulation is roughly worth the company that produced Minecraft.

Yeah. We are chump change in comparison to the world.

Lets see what happens.

Holy shit it broke $200. Panic sells inbound.

Was coming here just to say that resistance didn't resist very long. China soon to be 6200 and BTC-E pushing $880.
China isn't leading very much in this rise though which I think is a good thing. Really I was expecting the rise to resume
when and if the PBOC says their inspection of BTC-China came out all clear.

I feel $890 will be the resistance point for this drop, but I question whether we will be able to hit it.
I think if we drop to $880 then a large sell off will occur. Funny thing is the drop isn't coming from china, but they are following.

What I'm saying is it could be more than a little dip if something spooks people enough for it to go down to $880. Making profit off of
$10 dips with fees is hardly worthwhile unless you have at least 10BTC or so laying around

I have to admit I don't have a huge fear of "hacking" with BTC-E. It is always a risk and I wouldn't store life savings there or anything, but they have been one of the most reliable in that regard for a very long time aside from the temporary DDOS downtimes that happen every now and then.

I don't really care for the whole Bitcoin-Anarchists sentiment as it is obvious Bitcoin's primary means of use is as a means of obtaining and transferring fiat currency and when a single government action such as China's investigation of exchanges causes a large price dip we can't say government has no influence over bitcoin. But I have to ask what attracts you to bitcoin [I mean something since you are a member here].

Also, you hold all the values on that website I take it? Anti-LGBT, anti-immigration, etc?

So what about the Bitcoin question?


Didn't think there were many people who held those beliefs on a Bitcoin forum.

American here: Frankly I was a bit taken back no one pointed out what was being said here.

I think we will hit or at least come within striking distance of $1,000. I think the biggest thing right now is Segwit/Scaling-issues. As soon as this is resolved, we will see the market choose a direction. It will definitely make a shift, but we will have to see whether that is up or down.

Frankly I would prefer the scaling debate to come to an end more than I would want us to go on a moon shot. The worrying thing is Segwit is stalling for adoption. The current 25% mining power going to Segwit is nowhere near enough, and I have strong doubts any scaling solution will gain that much marketshare. With Bitcoin major mining pools making up more than 5% of the network [per pool] just one owner of a pool is all it takes for the change not to go through. That is insane for something as "decentralized" as Bitcoin [I know the centralization of Bitcoin has long been acknowledged].

Why is it though? I mean it is the change they wish to implement so why roadblock it?

^This.

For all the people who talk about Bitcoin being a global economic force and so on, they really need to put things in perspective. Bitcoin's market cap is at about $16,000,000,000 which is by averaging all coins at $1000. Now we all know that even if a fraction [say 1/4] of those coins were all sold off; the price would drop drastically. But lets look at the glass half full and say Bitcoin is worth $16Billion.

• AOL Bought Time Warner for $186 Billion.
• Vodafone Airtouch acquires Mannesmann – $185.1 Billion
• Pfizer Acquires Warner-Lambert – $87.3 Billion
• SBC Acquires AT&T – $83.1 Billion
• Exxon Acquires Mobil - $80 Billion

Or Microsoft purchased Lumia for $7.6 Billion which they just wrote off as a failure.


Bitcoin is chump change in the grand scheme of things.

Here. Even did some basic speculative calculations to put Bitcoin's real marketcap in perspective.

First 1/4 of BTC sold off at $1,000:  $4    Billion
Second 1/4 of BTC sold off at $700: $2.8 Billion
Third 1/4 of BTC sold off at $400:    $1.6 Billion
Fourth 1/4 of BTC sold off at $200:   $800 Thousand

Grand total market cap with these numbers of sell off depreciation: $9.2Billion. About the cost of buying a small failing smartphone manufacturer [Nokia].

Yeah, a company sell off should have the same thing as Bitcoin's market cap. The problem is Bitcoin is not a company but is supposed to be looked at as a currency. Most people look at the $16Billion market cap and think that is the real worth of all Bitcoin in circulation, when in reality it is probably half that value as shown by the little break down I just did.

Now lets look at Bitcoin as a currency [and Bitcoin's use as a currency depends on its ability to make transactions]: Mastercard and Visa together can handle about 80,000 transactions per second, keep in mind those two probably only makeup about 80% of the market. Bitcoin handles about 3 transactions per second. Bitcoin can currently handle about 1/26,000 what Visa and Mastercard can. Or if we convert that into a decimal: 0.00003846153846153846

Is it really severely undervalued? Look at my post above with the transaction bandwidth edit. How is Bitcoin severely undervalued without diving into speculative growth? Bitcoin's primary draw is as an investment tool for speculation. How many of you here regularly use Bitcoin as a currency to buy and sell goods for?

Bitcoin's intent was to be a digital form of cash. It is both a currency and a means of payment processing. This was pointed out right in the whitepaper. Even if Bitcoin now fills a different space, its outward intention was to function as both a currency and payment processor.

Now don't get me wrong, Bitcoin can scale [not to the level of Visa I don't think], but it is highly likely it will not in any substantial way. If a dynamic block size is implemented along with blockchain pruning then we could see many times more transactions processed per second, but just a basic increase [not even looking at pruning] has not made any meaningful progress towards consensus. And even if the network could handle it, how many of you actually use Bitcoin to buy and purchase goods and why not just use any other payment processing network?

I will admit I am playing devils advocate to some extent, but that is due to some of my disillusionment with how Bitcoin has evolved over the past 4+ years I've followed it. I believe most people would have very little interest in Bitcoin if its price remained stable or if it just increased in value slowly [will say 10% year, which is still pretty fast but about the value gold has risen over the past 15 years]. Most people's interest in Bitcoin itself is as a speculative tool it seems. And that part of Bitcoin I'm focusing on does seem like what Satoshi intended to be the primary draw of Bitcoin in his whitepaper; digital cash.

I think even if the ETF passes price might go down because so many are probably buying on the hopes that it will moonshot if it goes through. No moon, big sell off. Just my opinion. Granted we are pushing ATH now.

Very true. You notice a handful of companies shoe-horning "blockchains" into systems that really would see no additional benefit from it? Have a feeling a few "blockchain installation" companies will be popping up offering their expertise to company heads on how the "blockchain" will simply make everything better for their field of work.

And the thing is, those managerial type people tend to be clueless about a variety of topics when you go into a specific enough niche. I work in retail floor maintenance and some of the stupid ass shit you hear from retail employees all the way up to store managers is quite baffling. So I can easily see someone pushing a "blockchain agenda" into a few managers heads at a variety of businesses.