Fatman3001
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274
Merit: 1003


Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
January 10, 2015, 10:51:19 PM

I maintain that we still need a global currency crisis / collapse followed by a flood into precious metals. Once people realise that BTC and its derivatives are as good as precious metals and easier to use we will start to see real commerce take place in crypto. See you there, might have grey hair by then. But these dayys have been fun. We were there dudes!!

What drivatives has Bitcoin got? I heard they helped cause the last stock market crash. Fuck derivatives.

Take your meds mate. I meant altcoins (generally derived from the BTC source code)

Good, the last thing Bitcoin needs is derivatives (like the debt packages in the stock market).

Well ironically the winkelvoss ETF would be a derivative. Their company plans to purchase one BTC for every 5 shares in the etf owned. Unfortunately this is exactly what BTC needs right now to allow the gamblers a regulated environment for purchasing BTC with stupid amounts of money.

The more I think about it, the more grave is BTC's immediate future. I believe that ETF was already speculatively priced into BTC too which is also deflating with all the rest of the bad news. There is still big money in BTC and these are the guys doing the mini pumps followed by the massive dumps. And as said they will do this all the way down to zero or until they are out of the market. They need to get their money back and they don't care about you, me, or Bitcoin.

Both derivatives and shorting ought to be good for Bitcoin if only the currency (not only the technology) gained some significant traction with some kind of real use case. But there doesn't seem to be much adoption other than waves of shorting traders.

It depends what sort of derivatives you are talking about. The type I am against are like the packages of debt, the source of which the buyers don't know. I heard the last big bank crash was partially caused by traders buying packages of mortgage debt, but they didn't know it was mortgage debt. People had been given mortgages who had not got a hope in hell of paying and someone put that debt into a derivative and sold it.

The winkelvoss ETF might be regarded as a derivative, but it's a completely different kind of derivative to the dodgy ones available before the last bank crash.

The media was looking for a bogey man back then. The word derivatives sounded sinister. The problem wasn't that there were derivatives related to mortgages. It was the way they were sold, and the fact that there was no security behind those mortgages. And if the buyers didn't know what they were buying, then they shouldn't have bought them. I remember one bank manager for a small local bank in Minnesota (i think) was interviewed about the bail out. His bank stayed away from those derivatives because he simply didn't understand how they could work. And when it turned out that he was right he was very annoyed with the other banks that were screaming for a bail out. It wasn't unavoidable. It was a perfect storm of lack of regulation and hubris. Sounds familiar?

If we ever see that kind of derivatives in the Bitcoin economy it would have to mean that people were taking up mortgages in Bitcoin. If so, then we can safely say that Bitcoin has succeeded.